names

*** For those on the birdswa email list, you won’t have seen the
earlier discussion on common names, but most of what I say below is
WA related so I have included you. ***

As John Graff and others have said, the ‘white-headed’ stilt in
Australia is the Banded Stilt, not the ‘Black-winged’ Stilt. The
Black-winged Stilt has black on the back of the head and the neck.
Both have the (sub) specific name of ‘leucocephalus’ with different
genera which to me is strange to have both in the same family.

The IOC (and others?) has split the Black-winged Stilt and gave it
the name White-headed Stilt. This doesn’t just occur in Australia but
through quite a lot of South East Asia (if this includes Indonesia,
Moluccas, Sundas, Phillippines, etc?).

From BirdLife Australia’s perspective, we are trying to come up with
names for every taxa. It doesn’t matter whether you regard it as a
full species or sub species. A first pass was done for the sub
species but it needs revision. White-headed Stilt was heavily
discussed by the English Names Committee. There was strong resistance
to using White-headed. Black-necked and several other names were
discussed. Pied was initially mentioned but there was thought that
this was a common name in North America. When this was found to be
incorrect, Pied Stilt became our decision as it has long been called
Pied Stilt in NZ. We do prefer existing names, as long as they do not
clash. We hope that IOC and others will also adopt this name.

And so if ‘leucocephalus’ is not split, then the species name is
Black-winged Stilt and the sub species name is Pied Stilt. Both can
be used in the Australian context. They are both defined in the WLAB
(Working List of Australian Birds).

This is also the case for Western Ground Parrot. BA mostly accepts
HBW / BLI and they do not split WGP. So the species name is Ground
Parrot, but you can correctly refer to Western Ground Parrot and
Eastern Ground Parrot as these are the names for the sub species.
Without the split, the scientific name is a trinomial rather than a binomial.

Martin Cake has correctly pointed out that this has not been done for
some names in common use such as Kimberley Flycatcher, Paperbark
Flycatcher, Western Fieldwren, etc. They haven’t been discussed by
the ENC. I would hope that when we do that they will be changed.

The concept here is that if the sub species is later regarded as a
full species, that the common name should not need to change. This is
much easier than it sounds though, especially when there are multiple
sub species, and when some of the sub species are overseas, and when
several of the sub species would become the split. As Martin
correctly points out, the WLAB does not have a means of grouping sub species.

Martin has asked about names for the western sub species of
Australian Raven and Scarlet Robin which might be split. This has not
been discussed by the ENC, and obviously we would take other people’s
opinions into account if we know about them. Western Raven would be
unlikely to be an option, as ravens occur through most continents and
so Western would not really work. Western Scarlet Robin might be an
option (as we have Western and Eastern Yellow Robin) but that would
need the nominate form to be changed to Eastern Scarlet Robin or something.

_________________________________________________________________
Frank O’Connor Birding WA
birdingwa.iinet.net.au
Phone : (08) 9386 5694 Email : foconnor@iinet.net.au


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Whereabouts of John Malone

Hello all,

John used to contribute to W.A. Bird Notes about 15 years ago. I think he used to live at Kewdale.

He was probably the last person to see a Rufous Bristlebird at Ellensbrook back in 1980.

I have a copy of the notes he made at the time.

Cheers

Graeme Chapman


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Rock Parrots in Albany

I have seen a number of requests of where to find Rock Parrots in the SW
of WA. Middleton Beach and Albany Golf Course at Albany has been
recommended as a possible location. During Christmas/ New Year and last
weekend, I visited the area.

Rock Parrot- during 2 early morning walks on the Christmas / New Year
period, 2 were seen at Middleton Beach on both times. There were feeding
on Dune Cabbage along the foredune in front of Middleton Beach Caravan
Park and Middleton Beach Holiday Park (on Flinders Parade). Good beach
access is available at both ends of this area. None were seen on the 1st
300m of the walking track (which is sealed by bitumen) that goes from
the northern carpark to Emu Point. Last weekend none were ween on the
Sat afternoon and the following morning a Surf Carnival occupied most of
the above foredune area with sun shelters and multitude of feet.

Elegant Parrot- during 2 early morning walks on the Christmas / New Year
period, 11-12 were seen on the foredune and more along the walking
track. Last weekend up to 6 along the dune and 4 along the walking
track. This included many immature birds which could get confused for
Rock Parrots with their dull plumage. They feed on a variety of sources
including grasses and Dune Cabbage.

Yes, Rock Parrot are seen in this area but beware, there are many more
Elegants.

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ADVERTISEMENT

BirdLife Photography’, a Special Interest Group of BirdLife Australia, is
holding its biannual “Digital Photography in the Bush” (DPITB) event at the
Deakin University Waterfront Campus, Geelong on the 11th & 12th March 2017.

There will be morning seminars on both days followed by a variety of
workshops designed to capture the needs and interests of both birders and
photographers alike. Whether you are an Entry Level or
Intermediate/Advanced photographer there is something for everyone.

Interested? Go to birdlifephotography.org.au/index.php/dpitb for
more information on the program, registration, session selection, dinners
and associated outings.

Julie Sarna

Julie Sarna, jjsarna@gmail.com


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names

Mostly in reply to Frank –

Yes I should stress that IOC has proactive and thoughtful Aust representation and has generally done a great job on English names. Swan River Honeyeater being one exception, but that was soon corrected – proof that the flexible and democratic IOC process works. And yes White–headed Stilt being another, and hopefully that can be fixed too. Clements changed to Pied Stilt in 2006, HBW use Pied Stilt for the subspecies (Frank – note the HBW books and HBW Alive DO often list English names for distinctive subspecies), as do the New Zealanders so if BLA continue to split it then great to hear they will adopt that name too. But if BLA instead adopt BirdLife International’s lump, then they should stick with the international name of Black-winged Stilt – you can’t play it both ways.

Yes some credit is due to BLA for reviving the ENC back from the dead. Sounds hopeful that some of the awful regional names for subspecies will be replaced by authentic names. But that will not solve the problem while the HBW/BLI taxonomy remains, and this will remain a major roadblock for engagement with IOC/Clements on English names. It is not as simple as saying the taxon level doesn’t matter for English names.
For example, where a split taxon is distributed right across Australia but BLA lumps it, there will be no reason to debate an Australian name or record it in WLAB. eg. Torresian/Collared Kingfisher, Australasian/Purple Swamphen.
2nd example, where a split taxon is polytypic, there is currently no mechanism for WLAB to name subspecies “groups”, as Clements does proactively. e.g. Copperback Quail-thrush, Silver-backed Butcherbird.
Finally the slow laboured process you describe Frank, weighed down by bureaucratic paperwork, is hardly compatible with the sort of nimble ENC I was calling for!

But if people want to participate in useful debate on English names, how about proactively debating names for Aust Raven perplexus (Waardong Raven perhaps?) and Scarlet Robin campbelli (please not Campbell’s Robin!) ?

(On aboriginal names, yes these are potentially a great idea but there are some big cultural barriers, firstly the advice I’ve had is that the taxon/bird’s distribution should closely match the language group used to be culturally appropriate (pretty unlikely when you look at a language map), and secondly the difficulty in seeking let alone obtaining official “permission” to use them)

Martin


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names

IOC does have Phil Gregory, Leo Joseph and Dick Schodde on their panel.

BirdLife Australia does follow HBW / BLI for the species names (with
some exceptions), but there weren’t names for the sub species. So
RACC (BA’s Research & Conservation Committee) created WLAB (Working
List of Australian Birds) and decided to include the sub species.
This was a huge effort, and so after WLAB was initially completed the
English Names Committee was created as a sub committee reporting to
RACC in about June 2016. I was nominated to represent BirdLife
Western Australia. Note that RACC decides on the taxonomy, basically
following HBW / BLI. ENC then recommends the names to RACC. So that
is a very brief history.

Some decisions have been made, but there is work to be done. Even at
species level we do not accept all the HBW / BLI names. We cannot
accept Hooded Dotterel for example, as there is far too much
recognition of Hooded Plover through the various recovery teams. Yes
the ENC has been in existence since June, but time has been taken on
terms of reference, some decisions, etc.

Updating the taxonomy and the names is a major undertaking for BA and
its branches. There are databases (birdata), projects, pamphlets,
signage, web sites, powerpoint presentations, etc, etc, etc. So BA is
trying to limit updates. Minor updates will probably be done
annually, but major updates will probably be every 5 years or more.
That is life. Previous updates were 1978, 1994 and 2008! So things
are moving faster … (slowly!).

So the ENC will begin to address issues with the bird names, and I am
sure that a lot more attention will be paid to sub species names.
Once this becomes regular, I hope that RACC will be recognised
internationally and that our decisions (including the ENC
recommendations) will be taken into account favourably such as SACC
is for South America.

Personally I completely agree with Martin about Kimberley Flyrobin
(or Flycatcher), Western Fieldwren and Paperbark Flycatcher. I have
put these on the list for ENC to review. Remember this is not whether
they are full species or not, but what the name of the taxa should be.

Black-necked Stork / Jabiru / Satin Stork is a troublesome issue that
I am sure will have a lot of discussion. Probably not as much as
Black-winged / White-headed Stilt which was finally decided to use
Pied Stilt to follow the NZ name, and to recommend this to HBW / BLI
(but they have not split this yet as far as I am aware). Hopefully
IOC will adopt Pied Stilt, as White-headed does not match the bird. I
am surprised that both ‘White-headed’ and Banded have the same
specific name (leucocephalus) but different genera of course. I
thought it was a rule to avoid the same specific name in the same
family where possible.

_________________________________________________________________
Frank O’Connor Birding WA
birdingwa.iinet.net.au
Phone : (08) 9386 5694 Email : foconnor@iinet.net.au


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names

When will people learn that the Swan River Honeyeater was named (by
Gould in about 1860?) after the Swan River Colony, not the Swan River
itself. Hence the name was appropriate. Irrelevant now that Gilbert’s
has been adopted.

_________________________________________________________________
Frank O’Connor Birding WA
birdingwa.iinet.net.au
Phone : (08) 9386 5694 Email : foconnor@iinet.net.au


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Common Names

Phew! What a range of opinion. Personally I am in the “leave it be” group but when do you draw the line? Names have been changing forever.

I’m thinking all of us are being self-centred and promoting our particular view and one argument is as good as another.

Think outside the box. Think next generation. Let’s leave them with names that are unique, descriptive and attractive. BUT THEY DON’T HAVE TO RELATE TO SOME SORT OF INTERNATIONAL STANDARD. So there’s an authority taking it on themselves to alter names to fit their rules. So long as our names are unique and chosen by us, just tell the “authorities” to get stuffed. It’s COMMON names we are talking about for goodness sakes, used, I would suggest, 99.9% in Australia. Any international references would use the latin.

How could Willie Wagtail confuse anybody for goodness sake! How could you tell 20,000,000 Australians you’ve decided to change the name of their favourite bird? And can anybody honestly say any of the mooted alternatives are better? Same with “Magpie” Why shouldn’t our “Maggies” be taxonomicaly unrelated to “Magpies” elsewhere. Touring USA I had no problem understanding that. After hosting many overseas visitors over the years I’ve not found any of them to be confused by the concept that our “robins” are not the same as theirs.

The current alternative to “Honeyeater is neither descriptive nor attractive. Get the science nerds on splitting, lumping and assigning Latin names and birdwatchers on assigning common names for the common person that will roll off the tongue and let newcomers see a link between the bird and the name. (not to mention non-birdos) If you want to make changes, nuke “Gerygone”. There’s many others – If you have to explain a name it should be shot down.

To do that, all of us, in our own particular cliques, have to give up our favourites. I’m happy to surrender “Jabiru” and “Thick-Knee”, but let’s have something attractive and descriptive. “Stone-Curlew”? uh uh. Black-necked Stork when it’s head is Blue (or satin) just shows up the ignorance of those who have decided our names in the past.

Maris Lauva


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Fwd: Corvids

Thanks all. Yes, so my seeing & thinking proceeded thus: All birds I saw in flight had rounded tails, so that cuts out Torresian Crows. Then I thought Little Ravens plus ARs. Following where possible on foot or just waiting, I saw that the population contained juveniles, so if “ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny” extends into infancy, these young might have calls more similar to Torresian Crows & so the group might be an Australian Raven family. (Might the TC call be closest to the primordial / prototypal vocalisation ?)

Thanks for the emails confirming exactly the progress of my thinking! When I see birds that look “lighter” I think LRs + ARs ? — but really I guess ARs with juvs.

Judith

Reply to: jlukin01@postoffice.csu.edu.au
JLA
This note’s from the mobile.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Judith L-A < jlukin01@gmail.com>
> Date: 27 January 2017 at 2:26:52 pm AEDT
> To:
birding-aus@birding-aus.org
> Subject: Corvids
>
> I’m at a small shopping centre in Sydney’s inner west, & it seems like there’s both Australian Ravens & Torresian Crows present–
>
> Is this possible?
>
> Judith
>
> Reply to: jlukin01@postoffice.csu.edu.au
> JLA
> This note’s from the mobile.
>


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Fwd: Corvids

Thanks all. Yes, so my seeing & thinking proceeded thus: All birds I saw in flight had rounded tails, so that cuts out Torresian Crows. Then I thought Little Ravens plus ARs. Following where possible on foot or just waiting, I saw that the population contained juveniles, so if “ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny” extends into infancy, these young might have calls more similar to Torresian Crows & so the group might be an Australian Raven family. (Might the TC call be closest to the primordial / prototypal vocalisation ?)

Thanks for the emails confirming exactly the progress of my thinking! When I see birds that look “lighter” I think LRs + ARs ? — but really I guess ARs with hubs.

Judith

Reply to: jlukin01@postoffice.csu.edu.au
JLA
This note’s from the mobile.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Judith L-A < jlukin01@gmail.com>
> Date: 27 January 2017 at 2:26:52 pm AEDT
> To:
birding-aus@birding-aus.org
> Subject: Corvids
>
> I’m at a small shopping centre in Sydney’s inner west, & it seems like there’s both Australian Ravens & Torresian Crows present–
>
> Is this possible?
>
> Judith
>
> Reply to: jlukin01@postoffice.csu.edu.au
> JLA
> This note’s from the mobile.
>


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