It appears to me to be a pretty hard argument we have in NSW to stop shooting in National Parks, when we see statement like this in the last Birdlife e- News, in relation to Gluepot Reserve, i.e six members of the sporting shooters visited for four days, shooting 74 goats, a cat and a fox, and they also trapped two foxes. Whilst I am aware that other states allow shooting in Conservation areas, I don’t see why Birdlife should support such. Trapping I have no problem with or rounding up the goats and selling.
The question now is, who controls the policy of operations and management in Gluepot and Birdlife.
In disappointment
Neville Schrader
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Hi Carl,
Having lived in western NSW for approximately forty years, I have a little knowledge of goats and there effect on the environment and also the attitude of those living in the west towards goats. I guess its a matter of weighting up which is the most damaging in the short and long term and which is the most effect method of controlling goats in an area. Shooting is not it, but since goats have now and economic value, harvesting might have the desired effect of at least controlling numbers or at least I hope it has.
Though with the NSW Ag now encouraging landholders to use goats as a means to control native vegetation (Woody Weeds) I wonder if that will happen.
Neville Schrader
Neville,
Done a bit actually. When I was an animal health inspector with NSW Ag, I helped out our Noxious Animal Control Officer on his goat control research during my quiet times. It certainly is effective, but is done with a lot of noise, dust and environmental disturbance. It is not quite the activity you would want in a wildlife reserve like Gluepot.
Carl Clifford
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HI all The management committee at Gluepot has carefully considered the most effective way of controlling goats and continues to do so under ever increasing goat numbers coming in from surrounding properties. Shooting from vehicles on existing tracks, while managing visitor access by closing the areas of the reserve where shooting takes place, was considered the preferable method as it is less intrusive on the fragile mallee soil and undergrowth. It is undertaken only by one organisation under strict and careful guidelines. In the past, Gluepot was a bit of a ‘playground’ for locals to come and shoot goats, so we keep getting requests for access for the purpose of recreational goat-shooting. These requests are always rejected and hence the SA Sporting Shooters are quite keen not to loose their privilige to shoot at Gluepot. Dates and shooting areas are always set well in advance in consultation with the management committee. An operating protocol exists for the entire operation. This arrangement has been operating succesfully for a number of years now. In the recent birding-aus discussion someone mentioned “Rounding up wild goats is pretty easy, all you need is a good dog, a motor bike and mobile yards, preferably near a waterhole”. This would mean driving off-road and damaging the fragile mallee soil, cryptogamic crust that binds the top soil, and the undergrowth. Some 20 years ago there was exploration done for gypsum – vehicles drove all over the fragile soils and these tracks are still visible today. There are still other options being considered for goat control; two aerial shoot were completed in the last six months. The use of yards – mobile or permanent – requires water (hard to come by at Gluepot) and food (which will introduce weeds). Goat mustering activities undertaken some 15 years ago using mobile yards at one particular site resulted in a weed infestation which, while the weeds are pretty well eradicated, every once in a while they pop up again (certainly after good rains). There are only 2 dams remaining at Gluepot and they are surrounded by a large feral-proof fence. As the landscape surrounding the dams is already heavily modified, at times the gates are left open for goats to enter, and this is an effective method of collecting them. It is currently being considered to construct a small number of semi-permanent yards for the purpose of rounding up goats, but the damage to the environment of the associated mustering activities, if they go ahead off-tracks, will in my mind outweigh the few extra goats gained as compared to using the existing method. Hope this helps. cheers Peter *
< - a situation quite different to that in NSW where the Game Council hands out hunting licences to people who've never fired a gun, and we have very real concerns about the sorts of people who may end up wandering around some of our favourite birding locations with gun in hand>
Facts please on that statement !!
You are more likely to be killed on the road going birding than in a NP with shooters, there are more idiots on the road than in the parks, as we have seen from the shooting that has been carried out in NSW State Forests for years.
Cheers Chris
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Sandra,
Just to clear up one thing the Sporting Shooters in SA is the same branch of a wider organisation that includes NSW (who support the NSW legislation), Vic and in WA (refer to their Website) and in NSW will be the same amateurs shooting after June in NSW National Parks. Whether they are better shots then those who apply for a licence through the game council is debateable or not debateable depending if you are the target or not.
A person who has no shooting experience, can just as easy be a member of the SAA and obtain a licence, as can someone working off the street and getting a licence from the Game Council.
So I guess no one has answered my original example in relation to Birdlife Australia’s position.
Neville
I was at Gluepot a couple of years ago when the professional shooters came in for a couple of days to shoot goats. It did not cause us much inconvenience – the closed areas were clearly advised and we could still access some areas of the reserve. Gluepot has recently completed a major electric fencing program, to stop goats entering along part of the reserve boundary. There are not so many goats there that rounding them up or trapping them would seem to be possible – they are very wary and move around a lot. Gluepot has also eliminated all the places goats can get water (the only dams now are the fenced ones near the ranger’s house and they can’t get up to the bird watering troughs around the reserve), so I think the occasional visit by experienced shooters is a good idea – and we did chat to the shooters, who were very experienced – a situation quite different to that in NSW where the Game Council hands out hunting licences to people who’ve never fired a gun, and we have very real concerns about the sorts of people who may end up wandering around some of our favourite birding locations with gun in hand
sandra henderson canberra
On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Neville Schrader OAM wrote: ===============================
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Not to mention, time!!……
Yours in all things “green”
John Harris Croydon, Vic Owner – Wildlife Experiences Ecologist/Zoologist Nature Photographer Wildlife Guide wildlifeexperiences@gmail.com 0409090955
President, Field Naturalists Club of Victoria (www.fncv.org.au)
Carl,
I don’t know what expertise you have in rounding up wild goats, but they pretty easy, all you need is a good dog, a motor bike and mobile yards, preferably near a waterhole (personal information from my nephew, a professional goat herder) and with that you can make a good living. That’s why goats in NSW will never be eradicated. The economical factor and the fact that many leasees in the western Division are now turning to goats, rather then sheep for an income. The only hope is for the economic value to be removed, which I can’t see happening, at least in my life time. This also applies to pig’s and now possibly the River Rabbit (carp). Whenever you put and economic value on anything it changes its complexion. Though I would love to see the whole three and a few more species, eradicated I don’t see it happening.
The once or twice a year shoot by NPWS (or whatever there new title is ) has little impact, whilst ever they are surrounded with properties full of goats, amateur shooters will have a negotiable impact if not cause further problems, like fire (especially in the mallee country).
As far as Goats and Cats I’d take the goat anytime, corning a feral cats is the equivalent of taking you live in your hands. Feral cats do not act like you cute pussy cat you have at home.
I think average Australian is aware of the problem, but its one of those problems that individuals feels helpless about, after all our track record is not to good in controlling pests. Remember the dingo fences, rabbit fences, tick control etc etc. As far as Foot and Mouth and other diseases it only a matter of time.
But I see all of this as a side issue to my original e-mail.
Neville Schrader
Ever read “They All Ran Wild” by Eric Rolls Peter?
It details how rabbits could have been eradicated if it wasn’t for those who had an interest in keeping them around (as well as poor scientific knowledge). It is a very good read if you like historical perspectives.
However, it is unlikely that shooting alone could eradicate feral animals. It would require a combination of research, shooting, poisoning, biological agents, physical barriers and good luck.
Cheers
David
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The big difference, as I see it, is that in NSW they’ll be recreational shooters doing recreational shooting under the guise of feral control. They’ll have a vested interest in not doing a good job, otherwise it’ll be the end of their recreation.
Peter Shute
Sent from my iPad
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Neville,
NSW National Parks use professional shooters to control feral animals, such as pigs, goats and deer. The areas the shooters operate in are closed off when culling is in progress. Shooting is usually carried out where culling methods such as baiting or trapping are impractical.
Trapping can be effective in some situations, but is expensive and animals quickly learn to avoid traps. It is usually only cost effective when the trapped animals can be on-sold to the live export or abattoir trade.
Rounding up feral goats? Rounding up cats is somewhat easier.
It is a pity that the average Australian does not regard feral animal control more seriously. When Foot and Mouth Disease eventually enters Australia (and it will eventually, despite the best efforts of AQIS), we can kiss goodbye to most of our meat and many other agricultural product export trades.
Carl Clifford
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G’day all
I’m delighted that there are 74 goats less in Gluepot. A very sensible use of guns and shooters. A cat and three foxes too – a bonus!
Cheers Steve
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It is good Birdlife being proactive in controlling ferals at Gluepot. It is a shame more land managers don’t do the same.
I can only agree with David that hunting in a closed reserve is different to hinting in an open national park. Back in the 90’s while working as a ranger in qld, we closed one of the main tourist areas, for 18 hrs, to attempt to shoot some of the feral pigs in the area that were doing so much damage. This wasn’t being done on an ad hoc basis and all users knew about it. I’m not sure the same will be the case in NSW.
Yours in all things “green”
John Harris Croydon, Vic Owner – Wildlife Experiences Ecologist/Zoologist Nature Photographer Wildlife Guide wildlifeexperiences@gmail.com 0409090955
President, Field Naturalists Club of Victoria (www.fncv.org.au)
That is like comparing apples with oranges.
Gluepot Reserve is closed to the public while very experienced shooters cull goats. The NSW situation, as I understand it, allows hunting in national parks while other users attempt to enjoy the environment.
Cheers
David
On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Neville Schrader OAMhttp://birding-aus.org ===============================