With the spate of twitching of the White-rumped Sandpiper at Lake Wollumboola over the past three weeks, there have been quite a few reports of Lesser Sand Plovers there as well. After I posted on my blog about my trip there, I had an email from another Birding-auser who thought the sand plovers he had seen were Greaters, not Lessers. That crystalised a niggling doubt I had, so I had a closer look at my photos. I’ve now put up a second post with these photos and conclude that all the sand plovers I saw were in fact Greaters. At the risk of potential embarrassment, I’d love to hear from anyone who’d like to either confirm or shoot down my diagnosis… http://hdpphd.blogspot.com.au/2015/01/lake-wollumboola-sand-plovers.html cheers, Harvey Canberra
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I assumed that Harvey’s maxim that: “if there’s any doubt, then it’s a Lesser”, was based on appearance & not probability in numbers? i.e. if it’s a Greater, it will be obvious. For me it’s the reverse, i.e. when looking at Sand Plovers (not photos) “‘if in doubt, then it’s probably a Greater”. This is on based on the fact that for me, whenever I’ve had some doubt, after taking a bunch of photos, I’ve almost always concluded it’s a Greater. BTW, in Ballina (far northern NSW), we get very low numbers of both Greater & Lesser, but generally Greater out-number Lesser by about 4-1 Cheers, Steve —–Original Message—– Sent: Wednesday, 4 February 2015 3:51 PM Cc: Birding-Aus Also Harvey that rule of thumb about “assume it’s a lesser” only works for the east coast of Australia. In Broome the lesser is much fewer in numbers and the greater’s dominate. Worth getting a feel for the relative bill length and taking a minute to be thankful we don’t have to guess leg lengths like in some parts of the world. Thanks Neil for that data it confirms my field experience and puts it into a pretty understandable format! Cheers, Chris
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Ditto in south-western Australia J.
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Also Harvey that rule of thumb about “assume it’s a lesser” only works for the east coast of Australia. In Broome the lesser is much fewer in numbers and the greater’s dominate. Worth getting a feel for the relative bill length and taking a minute to be thankful we don’t have to guess leg lengths like in some parts of the world. Thanks Neil for that data it confirms my field experience and puts it into a pretty understandable format! Cheers, Chris
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Hervey, Here are some summarised measurement data that was published in Stilt some years ago (I can provide the exact references if anyone needs them): – *Lesser Sand Plover* – Bill 16.9mm – Head 28.8mm – Bill/Head ratio 0.59 – *Greater Sand Plover* – Bill 23.8mm – Head 30.8mm – Bill/Head ratio 0.77 As you can see from the above, the Lesser Sand Plover has the shorter bill and the species have similar size heads. This leads to the overall impression that the Lesser Sand Plover’s bill is ~½ the size of its head & the Greater Sand Plover’s bill is ~¾. I hope this helps. *Neil Shelley*
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Well, after quite a bit of email traffic on Birding-aus over the past couple of days, both public and private, the consensus is very clearly that the two birds I photographed at Lake Wollumboola are both Lesser Sand Plovers. Bird #1 came “close” but was still universally considered a Lesser. I asked some of the respondents for additional tips as to why and can summarise as follows. To a large degree it is the “jizz” of the bird, particularly around the overall proportions and shape of the head, legs and body, but especially, the bill length seems to be key. None of this was new to me, and these are all features identified in the field guides to look for, but clearly I just don’t have the experience with these birds to ‘get it’ just yet. Some of the comments included: *“I find it’s immediately a ‘jizz’ thing. Greaters just look so long-legged they look awkward. The tibia is very long which elevates the body way up off the knees. They look as if they’re about to topple forwards. The bill is important too. A Greater has a bill that is much longer and thicker than a Lesser and if stuck onto the side of the head of the bird (ouch) would probably reach behind the eye.”* *“The bills of your birds look very much on the short side for Greater, and also relatively bulbous- and blunt-tipped which is better for Lesser. Similarly, the overall shape and proportions are much ‘nicer’, whereas Greaters tend to look more gangly with oversized heads and bills. That said, there is significant variation in both species, and birds with more intermediate features can be extremely challenging to assign to species”* So it seems there will be some individuals, at either end of a scale, that will fit neatly into clear-cut ‘identifiability’ as one or the other. The photo on my blog of the Lesser Sand Plover from Northwest Island is one of these. But I suspect a large number of birds, if not the majority, will fall instead within the range of ‘confusability’ for a large number, if not the majority, of people. I take some comfort from the statement in the *NPIAW – The Shorebirds of Australia* which states that, “Identification is therefore far from easy, even for experts, especially as individual birds may be at different stages of their moult”. It’s probably worth keeping in mind the maxim that: “if there’s any doubt, then it’s a Lesser”. So, As foreshadowed in my initial email to Birding-aus, I have ended up slightly embarrassed (and my credibility as a wader watcher and birdwatcher more generally must be well and truly shot!), but it has been worth it for the feedback it triggered and the better understanding I now have. Thanks to all. I’ve updated my blog post with this text as a Postscript. Cheers, Harvey
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As John says none of the pictures from Lake Wollumboola are GSP at least when considering likely Australian races. If we were overseas bird #1 would be trickier. The only GSP are in the bottom image and involves the two long-beaked birds in the back. Cheers, D.
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I was so busy looking at the White-rumped SP I didn’t even notice the Greaters and/or Lessers. Funny how one’s priorities determine one’s actions eh ! —–Original Message—– Sent: Thursday, 29 January 2015 10:10 AM I agree that none of the birds in the images taken at Wollumboola are Greaters. Bird 1 would be the only ‘candidate’ but I still think it is a Lesser. Last Friday (23rd) when we were down at the site, there were 5 Lessers and no Greaters. Mick From: John Graff < jgraff2@hotmail.com> To: martin cachard < mcachard@hotmail.com>; Harvey Perkins < hdpphd@gmail.com>; Birding-Aus < birding-aus@birding-aus.org>; Canberra Birds < canberrabirds@canberrabirds.org.au> Sent: Wednesday, 28 January 2015, 21:33 Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Sand Plovers at Lake Wollumboola G’day Harvey et al. All the photos on your blog look like Lessers with the exception of a couple at the far bottom photo (which I don’t think is from the lake?) There was at least one Greater Sand at the lake when I was there on 14th Jan, but I only saw Lessers on the 16th Cheers, John
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I agree that none of the birds in the images taken at Wollumboola are Greaters. Bird 1 would be the only ‘candidate’ but I still think it is a Lesser. Last Friday (23rd) when we were down at the site, there were 5 Lessers and no Greaters. Mick From: John Graff < jgraff2@hotmail.com> To: martin cachard < mcachard@hotmail.com>; Harvey Perkins < hdpphd@gmail.com>; Birding-Aus < birding-aus@birding-aus.org>; Canberra Birds < canberrabirds@canberrabirds.org.au> Sent: Wednesday, 28 January 2015, 21:33 Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Sand Plovers at Lake Wollumboola G’day Harvey et al. All the photos on your blog look like Lessers with the exception of a couple at the far bottom photo (which I don’t think is from the lake?) There was at least one Greater Sand at the lake when I was there on 14th Jan, but I only saw Lessers on the 16th Cheers, John
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G’day Harvey et al. All the photos on your blog look like Lessers with the exception of a couple at the far bottom photo (which I don’t think is from the lake?) There was at least one Greater Sand at the lake when I was there on 14th Jan, but I only saw Lessers on the 16th Cheers, John
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I’ve just gone back through my photos and I too have shots of Greater Sand Plover. Must have been too focussed on the White-rumped On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:47 PM, Kev Lobotomi < kevlobotomi@hotmail.com> wrote: — All the best, James Mustafa 0400 951 517 http://www.jamesmustafajazzorchestra.com
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hey Harvey, I just had a quick look at yr log – there’s def some Greate SP’s im there… pic 12 shows a lome Greater om the right, rest look like Lesser’s to me… pic 11 is a Lesser for sure. hope that helps a little…?? cheers martim cachard, cairms
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HI HarveyI saw both species there. There were 3 Greater SPs feeding and 3 Lesser SPs roosting in the tern enclosure. It’s just that the Greaters weren’t reported. I was going to do it, but I forgot.-Kevin Bartram
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