Staying at Nelson, Vict for a few days. Quite surprised yesterday whilst driving through pine forests (not sure if P.radiata) just east of Nelson to see 3 different groups of emus (2, 3 and 5 birds) feeding in the cleared area between the pines and the road and slipping into the pine forest when we approached. I didn’t think there would be emus in this country and most surprised to see them living in pines. I am not suggesting that pine plantations might be the saviour of our endangered coastal emus south of Yamba, however…
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Re: Peter’s comment on the small pine plantation in Barrington Tops, this is used by Lyrebirds to roost in – I once pulled in there early morning and watched the birds dropping down from branch to branch from much higher up where they appeared to have spent the night, safe from foxes and cats.
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I suspect that the aspect which determines the bird populations is whether or not it is a monoculture. Here in WA there are extensive monoculture Blue Gum plantations in the southwest. Within their depths, hey seem to be just as quiet as any pine plantation. While one can see the odd bird flying through, mostly they are confined to the edges. This might change during the flowering season but the trees seem to be harvested before that happens to any great extent. Andrew On 6/08/2015 6:56 AM, Steve Painter wrote: — *********************************************************** Andrew Hobbs pardalote@iinet.net.au ***********************************************************
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It was the plantations in the upper Ovens Valley arount Bright that I was thinking of when I made the same comment earlier. As others have said, it’s likely to be the density of the plantations that makes them unsuitable for bird life. I once read a comment here that Spotted Quail-thrush can be found in the thinned plantations, but I’ve never managed to see any. Peter Shute
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I often find myself in the pine forests outside Canberra and Queanbeyan (esp Kowan’s and Sparrow Hill – to race mountain bikes of all things), and have noticed that they are hotspots for several native species; notably Bassian Thrush, Grey Currawong, Choughs, Yellow-tail Blacks, Brown and Yellow Rump TBills and (especially) Scarlet Robin. But i agree that most of these are more frequently seen/heard in the more scrappy segments, edges, or sectors with resurgent native stuff poking through (more light etc). The only species that really seems to dig the dark heavy sectors is Bassian Thrush. David Langley
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My experience with pines in the Chiltern area, where I spent my childhood and teenage years, is that they are completely silent. Fortunately there are not many pines in the Chiltern area, mainly around the Barambogie reservoir. I’ve had similar experiences in pines in the Bundanoon area of the NSW Southern Highlands.
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Some years ago, we travelled from Scone to Gloucester via Barrington Tops NP and pulled up in a very old pine forest for lunch. The trees were really big and the forest floor was littered with logs and fallen trees. Clearly it was not a forest managed for harvesting. We were amazed at the 5 or 6 lyrebirds getting around. There was not much understory, and the ground was soft and churned up. Peter and Bev Morgan The conservation battle is never finally won; the development battle is.
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IPeter asked: In WA, Carnaby’s Cockatoo used to love visiting the Pine Plantations near Perth, where they would stay for weeks eating pine seeds as a change to their diet of eucalyptus seeds. Most of the plantations I believe have gone now. Cheers Mike =================== Michael Tarburton tarburton.m@optusnet.com.au ===================
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The team lead by Dr David Lindenmayer from ANU have done long ranging studies over many years about use by birds of pine (of different ages, habitat size, isolation) compared with native and farmland etc habitats in several areas. The one I am most familiar with (because I was one of the volunteers, along with many other COG members) was near Tumut, west of ACT. So there is a huge amount of data analysing the variables from their studies with. I’m not going to attempt to respond to Peter’s question by retyping any of what I recall from it here (it would be a waste of time). Best seek out that information direct. To see some of that work, a fair start is this link: https://researchers.anu.edu.au/researchers/lindenmayer-db Philip —–Original Message—– Peter Shute Sent: Wednesday, 5 August 2015 7:45 AM Cc: birding-aus Are there any Australian birds that use pine plantations for anything other than refuge? The few times I’ve bothered birding in them, birds have been almost totally absent. I made a morning recording on one, and captured only distant calls. Peter Shute
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To add to this discussion, In SW Victoria getting towards the border I’ve also found Emu in big numbers through pine plantation as well as other smaller species such as Grey Shrikethrush, Yellow-tailed Black Cockatoo, Forest Raven and Eastern Yellow Robin. I think some species are just keen to check it out – others not, On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Stephen Ambrose < stephen@ambecol.com.au> wrote: — All the best, James Mustafa 0400 951 517 http://www.jamesmustafajazzorchestra.com
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I think the value of pine plantations as habitat for birds depends on the location of the plantation, the types of microhabitats within it, and the nature of the surrounding landscape. Remnant woodland in the predominantly agricultural landscape on SW South-west Slopes of NSW can be quite scarce. I’ve found that pine plantations that adjoin patches of eucalypt woodland, especially alongside roadside eucalypt woodland corridors, can have quite a lot of native birds, including small passerines such as Red-capped Robins, Yellow-rumped Thornbills and White-plumed Honeyeaters. I don’t know if they use these pine plantations for refuge, foraging and/or nesting, but obviously if there is invasion of native understorey and groundcover plant species from the neighbouring eucalypt woodland, or if there is riparian vegetation along creeks within the pine plantation, the more likely that it would be suitable as habitat for a range of bird species and activities. Stephen Ambrose Ryde, NSW —–Original Message—– Greg and Val Clancy Sent: Wednesday, 5 August 2015 9:22 AM Cc: birding-aus The Yellow-tailed Black-Cockatoos at Coutts Crossing, north coast NSW, regularly feed on the seeds of the pines (Slash Pine Pinus elliottii) in a small plantation across the road from our place but the forest is generally quite sterile. The surrounding native forest is full of birds. A few species do occasionally use the pines as they move from one patch of native bush to another but the value of the pine forest is very limited. I have seen a Common Ringtail drey in one pine and Grey Butcherbirds appear to nest in the pines. A flock of Spangled Drongos also moved though them a couple of years back but the mix of native trees around the edge and though the plantation would account for most activity. I have been ringbarking the pines to make way for natural revegetation but the local council is considering whether they will remove them all. The pines have not been managed so have little commercial value. Regards Greg Dr Greg. P. Clancy Ecologist and Birding-wildlife Guide | PO Box 63 Coutts Crossing NSW 2460 | 02 6649 3153 | 0429 601 960 http://www.gregclancyecologistguide.com http://gregswildliferamblings.blogspot.com.au/ —–Original Message—– Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 8:04 AM Cc: birding-aus I have certainly seen sulphur crested cockatoos in the pine belts aound Canberra tearing away at cones; I would guess the larger black cockatoos have the physical and manipulative capacities to do the same. King parrots do not seem to; there are many small flocks of these in Canberra at the moment, but they are eating fallen acorns Kim Kim Sterelny, School of Philosophy, Research School of the Social Sciences, Australian National University, Acton, 0200, ACT, Australia Kim.Sterelny@anu.edu.au or Kim.Sterelny@vuw.ac.nz 61-(0)2-6125-2886 ________________________________________
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Around Perth, Carnabys Black Cockatoos have become so dependent upon the Gnangara Pine plantations as a food source that they have become the subject of conservation efforts to preserve them. (They are being removed in an effort to cut down on water removal by the trees from the Gnangara Water Mound, a major source of underground water for Perth) Andrew On 5/08/2015 6:04 AM, Kim Sterelny wrote: — *********************************************************** Andrew Hobbs pardalote@iinet.net.au ***********************************************************
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Some pine plantations (esp Gnangara) are v important for Carnaby’s Black Cockatoo because of degradation of other food sources over the years. Cheers, Ian Sent from my iPhone
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The Yellow-tailed Black-Cockatoos at Coutts Crossing, north coast NSW, regularly feed on the seeds of the pines (Slash Pine Pinus elliottii) in a small plantation across the road from our place but the forest is generally quite sterile. The surrounding native forest is full of birds. A few species do occasionally use the pines as they move from one patch of native bush to another but the value of the pine forest is very limited. I have seen a Common Ringtail drey in one pine and Grey Butcherbirds appear to nest in the pines. A flock of Spangled Drongos also moved though them a couple of years back but the mix of native trees around the edge and though the plantation would account for most activity. I have been ringbarking the pines to make way for natural revegetation but the local council is considering whether they will remove them all. The pines have not been managed so have little commercial value. Regards Greg Dr Greg. P. Clancy Ecologist and Birding-wildlife Guide | PO Box 63 Coutts Crossing NSW 2460 | 02 6649 3153 | 0429 601 960 http://www.gregclancyecologistguide.com http://gregswildliferamblings.blogspot.com.au/ —–Original Message—– Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 8:04 AM Cc: birding-aus I have certainly seen sulphur crested cockatoos in the pine belts aound Canberra tearing away at cones; I would guess the larger black cockatoos have the physical and manipulative capacities to do the same. King parrots do not seem to; there are many small flocks of these in Canberra at the moment, but they are eating fallen acorns Kim Kim Sterelny, School of Philosophy, Research School of the Social Sciences, Australian National University, Acton, 0200, ACT, Australia Kim.Sterelny@anu.edu.au or Kim.Sterelny@vuw.ac.nz 61-(0)2-6125-2886 ________________________________________
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The plantations I’ve birded in (in Victoria) had virtually no understory, just a carpet of pine needles. The owls you’ve seen may only have been roosting there, but I don’t know whether there’s mammal prey for them in the plantations. I guess a pine plantation could be a good roost for owls, as they might be less likely to be found and mobbed there. Peter Shute
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I have certainly seen sulphur crested cockatoos in the pine belts aound Canberra tearing away at cones; I would guess the larger black cockatoos have the physical and manipulative capacities to do the same. King parrots do not seem to; there are many small flocks of these in Canberra at the moment, but they are eating fallen acorns Kim Kim Sterelny, School of Philosophy, Research School of the Social Sciences, Australian National University, Acton, 0200, ACT, Australia Kim.Sterelny@anu.edu.au or Kim.Sterelny@vuw.ac.nz 61-(0)2-6125-2886 ________________________________________ Sent: Wednesday, 5 August 2015 7:45 AM Cc: birding-aus Are there any Australian birds that use pine plantations for anything other than refuge? The few times I’ve bothered birding in them, birds have been almost totally absent. I made a morning recording on one, and captured only distant calls. Peter Shute
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Well in southern Qld, you can get lots of bird in Pinus plantations if an understory has developed well, which often happens along old drainage lines and sometimes much more extensively. But don’t write it off too easily! I have found lots of Masked Owls in older Pinus plantations. They seem to be residents there, and Barn Owls can out number them at certain times (their numbers seem to fluctuate a lot more). But do be careful! Pinus plantations can be really boring! I still show an injury where a famous birder hit me in the eyebrow with a Xanthorrhea spear! Stupid things people get up to when the birding is slow…. And yes, I was hardy blameless! Cheers, Chris. On 8/4/2015 4:45 PM, Peter Shute wrote: — Chris Corben.
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Are there any Australian birds that use pine plantations for anything other than refuge? The few times I’ve bothered birding in them, birds have been almost totally absent. I made a morning recording on one, and captured only distant calls. Peter Shute
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Geoff Emus are quite common in the coastal area west of Portland right through to the Murray mouth. However, I suspect that the pines (and they are *Pinus radiata*) are only used as a refuge. The generally wide areas between the plantations and roads provide forage but there would be slim pickings for emus in the plantations themselves. Southwestern Victoria has many attractions and Nelson is on my list of places to re-visit. Cheers David On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 9:23 AM, Geoff Ryan < geoffryanster@gmail.com> wrote:
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Emus are often seen in pine plantations around reservoirs in the Adelaide Hills. I think they feel safe in these restricted access places. —–Original Message—– Geoff Ryan Sent: Tuesday, 4 August 2015 8:53 AM Staying at Nelson, Vict for a few days. Quite surprised yesterday whilst driving through pine forests (not sure if P.radiata) just east of Nelson to see 3 different groups of emus (2, 3 and 5 birds) feeding in the cleared area between the pines and the road and slipping into the pine forest when we approached. I didn’t think there would be emus in this country and most surprised to see them living in pines. I am not suggesting that pine plantations might be the saviour of our endangered coastal emus south of Yamba, however…
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