An interesting read. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marc-bekoff/ridiculously-gorgeous-rar_b_8201720.html?ir=Australia Carl Clifford
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Hi There has been so much written on this incident and it seems to have caused a lot of discussion between researchers on the validity or otherwise of retaining specimens under these circumstances I wonder if future research projects will have to change their techniques. All very intetesting Dom On 10 Oct 2015 9:27 am, “mike.honeyman” < mike.honeyman@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
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Hi Dom The original article and the links I provided explain the utility of specimens and why photographs don’t cut it.And while the kingfisher might be on display now, the point is that if preserved correctly it will still be available for research purposes in many different contexts in 10s of years to come. Cheers mjh Sent from my Samsung GALAXY S5 ——– Original message ——– Cc: Peter Shute < pshute@nuw.org.au>, birding-aus@birding-aus.org Hi Michael I suppose what I was ineptly trying to say is that given the trend for new species of invertebrates to be described and classified without retention of voucher specimens and improving photographic techniques the often spouted reason for retaining specimens that is to describe species is becoming obsolete. To me this Kingfisher seems to have been retained for no stronger reason almost than no one has a male! Given that as I understand it the specimen was given to a local museum to display there seems little scientific justification for its retention. But as a complete amateur I could well be totally wrong – usually am! Dom On 10 Oct 2015 8:51 am, “Michael Honeyman” < mike.honeyman@optusnet.com.au> wrote: Hi DomI think there is a misconception that the only purpose of collecting is to have a voucher specimen.http://www.mnhn.ul.pt/pls/portal/docs/1/336035.PDFhttp://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1474-919X.1998.tb04391.x/abstracthttp://www.museum.lsu.edu/~Remsen/Winker-Auk-05.pdfhttp://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/MUv111n3_ED.htmmjh On 10 Oct 2015, at 09:06, Dominic Funnell < dominic.funnell@googlemail.com> wrote: I think the collection of a specimen of a bird that was always known to be there (males seen in 90s I believe) not completely necessary especially given the example of completely new invertebrate species to science having been described solely from HD photographs with no voucher specimens being retained. Surely blood and feather sample and HD photos more than adequate for a known species of vertebrate. Dom
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Hi Michael I suppose what I was ineptly trying to say is that given the trend for new species of invertebrates to be described and classified without retention of voucher specimens and improving photographic techniques the often spouted reason for retaining specimens that is to describe species is becoming obsolete. To me this Kingfisher seems to have been retained for no stronger reason almost than no one has a male! Given that as I understand it the specimen was given to a local museum to display there seems little scientific justification for its retention. But as a complete amateur I could well be totally wrong – usually am! Dom On 10 Oct 2015 8:51 am, “Michael Honeyman” < mike.honeyman@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
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Hi Dom I think there is a misconception that the only purpose of collecting is to have a voucher specimen. http://www.mnhn.ul.pt/pls/portal/docs/1/336035.PDF http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1474-919X.1998.tb04391.x/abstract http://www.museum.lsu.edu/~Remsen/Winker-Auk-05.pdf http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/MUv111n3_ED.htm mjh
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I think the collection of a specimen of a bird that was always known to be there (males seen in 90s I believe) not completely necessary especially given the example of completely new invertebrate species to science having been described solely from HD photographs with no voucher specimens being retained. Surely blood and feather sample and HD photos more than adequate for a known species of vertebrate. Dom On 10 Oct 2015 7:50 am, “Michael Honeyman” < mike.honeyman@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
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In summary real scientists who do actual science provide rational explanations for the collecting of specimens (this specific one and more generally) The response from non-scientists is “WON’T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE BIRDS!!!!!???” Which of course is what the scientists that have been working in the jungles in the Solomons and elsewhere are doing…. mjh
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Sorry, haven’t been reading the posts. They should still be on OB.
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Well, it’s been dead quiet here. Want to give us a summary? Peter Shute s-rar_b_8201720.html?ir=Australia
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The Oriental Birding list has been running hot on this thread.
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A response to the article below, justifying the collection of the Moustached Kingfisher, can be found here: https://www.audubon.org/news/why-i-collected-moustached-kingfisher Peter Shute Sent from my iPad On 1 Oct 2015, at 2:31 PM, Carl Clifford < carlsclifford@gmail.comcarlsclifford@gmail.com>> wrote: An interesting read. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marc-bekoff/ridiculously-gorgeous-rar_b_8201720.html?ir=Australia Carl Clifford
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