Yellow Bittern at North Lakes
By Birding-Aus, on July 11th, 2014
Hi All, The Yellow Bittern that was at North Lakes has now been flushed due to the irresponsible behaviour of a minority of photographers. One reliable witness has informed me that 12-15 people were present at the site this morning (mostly with cameras) and that a couple of the photographers approached too closely, despite repeated requests to respect the welfare of the bird and disturbance to local residents. Also, even after the bird flushed to a nearby golf course, these same photographers gave chase and once more approached too closely and the bird then flushed again – this time to a whereabouts unknown. Due to the selfish and careless actions of these few anyone wishing to view this bird has now had that privilege denied. Birders are now asked to refrain from visiting this site. Thank you, Sandra Gallienne Birdline Central & Southern Queensland Moderator/ebird Reviewer _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
I think it’s time we all took a deep breath, and stopped the “he said – she said” arguments that are in same cases edging close to the grey area around defamation. We are all essentially on the same side here – as people who like to look at birds in the wild. We should save our energies for attacking people who prefer to take birds out of the wild and trade them illegally; or people who want to destroy habitat for their own financial gain; or people who want to destroy birds for ‘sport.’ There is little sense attacking each other over what might or might not have been implied, or about what some birders might or might not have done. Please remember PERSPECTIVE – just like the blind men and the elephant, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant we all understand the same incident from slightly different views, so we all see something different … The parable of the Bittern: Three birders are looking at a Yellow Bittern see it fly away to a nearby golf course. One noticed a photographer getting quite close for a shot (“the photographer scared it away”); the second birder saw a Little Bittern charge at the Yellow (“The Little Bittern is breeding and chasing off the Yellow”); a third birder noticed that the Yellow Bittern flushed whenever the wind gusted from a certain direction (“The Bittern is spooked by the wind blowing the reeds!”). OK I made up the last one, and this really isn’t a parable, but I think you understand what I mean. We all interpret what we see to confirm the things we believe, or the stances we already hold. We all see the same things slightly differently – and we are all correct (to ourselves), because we’ve seen it with our OWN eyes! So please – let’s stop attacking each other, and instead focus on the positives. There is a Yellow Bittern at North Lakes. It may have been there for a while. It may stay around for a while. Many of us may be lucky enough to see it. At some stage, someone will dip, but they might get to watch a pair of Little Bitterns instead (I’ve seen Yellow, but not Little!) or some other great birds nearby, like that Dowitcher. There are too many great bids to see to waste time trying to prove that my perspective is right and yours is wrong – so let’s do some (responsible) birding instead. Russell Woodford Birding-Aus List Owner PS Please don’t make me have to ban the term “Yellow Bittern” from BIrding-Aus! On 14 July 2014 17:14, cgregory123 . < cgregory123@gmail.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
The moderators of this site should step in to not only put an end to this wearisome thread but also to make this point. On no account will they allow a post on this forum that names and shames a member of the public, as has been suggested by several people. The simple reason is that member of the public, so named, has committed no crime. That member of the public “named and shamed” will then have a quite justifiable claim for harassment, defamation, libel – you name it – against the poster and maybe the moderators themselves, who allowed the post through to a public site. We live in a litigious world – tread carefully. Chris Gregory On 14 July 2014 07:51, Sandra Gallienne < sandraga1630@gmail.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
What makes you people think that you have the right to criticise and falsely accuse me on a public forum? Do I have warts on my nose and a wear a pointy black hat – should I perhaps be burnt at the stake? I’m actually very glad the bird returned to the original site and put on such a good performance for you all and that you were able to obtain lovely photographs of it. I’m not against photographers nor am I trying to stir up trouble as some of you allege, I take photos too, as I’m sure you can see if any of you read the Recent Lists on the ebird website. I VOLUNTEER hours of my time as a Birdline Moderator to publish your reports as quickly as possible to enable you all to go out and see these rarities. Then I have to index all your sightings to the birdata atlas – something which takes me literally hours attempting to locate your obscure sites on Whereis or Google Earth – all so that atlas data can be as accurate as possible, all because you people don’t give precise information and take for granted the work that goes on behind the scenes to enhance YOUR enjoyment of birding. I often get requests to help identify photographs of obscure birds which I often have to check out online or in HANZAB, something I willingly do, to help newer birders with their passion – ALL AT NO COST TO ANYONE. Now, in answer to some of your accusations, I state the following: I can provide a name of the eyewitness to whom I spoke as well as the name of another person who sent an email to me about the trespassing on the golf course. Below is the body of that email: “I have just been up to North Lakes to see “the BIRD”. … When I arrived I was told that it was now showing over on the lagoon at the golf course just across the road. On walking over that way I saw a number of people looking at the bittern from within the golf course boundaries. Stupidly, without thinking I joined the group and had a look at it. We were soon approached by the course ranger and asked to leave and not to come on the course without getting permission. And rightly so. There were no golfers around when I was there and nor did we attempt to walk near the greens etc, but we should not have been there. Not only is it a private course but it can be very dangerous as golf balls strikes have been known to kill people. So I am just wondering if you could get a note out to other birders to not encroach on the golf course. I don’t want other birders (like our little group) giving birders in general a black mark. Sorry about this but I feel compelled to get the message out as soon as possible.” However, at this point I don’t believe it would make any difference to the current hysteria to name them. The eyewitness to whom I spoke said he didn’t know the names of the photographers he alleges he saw chase and flush the bird and to involve him at this stage would only have another birder maligned. I believe also that through the chain of events that occurred before I made my birding-aus post which involved phone calls with at least 3 people, that I may have misunderstood the initial part of the chain of events explained to me by this witness that involved the moving on of the bird from the original site to the golf course. However, this does not alter the fact that the bird was later flushed from the golf course. I also have some emails from a BQ member calling for calm on this issue and confirming my statement that there was an eyewitness who saw what I have claimed. These are below: First email: “Mike has been to North Lakes this morning and the Yellow Bittern has returned to its original location. (he has just phoned in his report) There are plenty of birdos there getting wonderful shots without disturbing the bird at all. They all seem to be behaving themselves. The story of some “enthusiastic” birdos flushing the bird several times yesterday have been confirmed, but these birdos were not known to a BQ member that was there yesterday. Lindy West” Second email: Calm down children. The latest in the Yellow Bittern saga is that the bird has been reliable reported as leaving the pond at Wallaroo Circuit WITHOUT harassment by birdos. However there is NO doubt that (unknown) photographers followed it onto the golf course and their “pushy” actions there caused it to flush at least twice. The bird has now returned to its home (of possibly two years or more according to local residents). Watch this space. Mike West” There is also a claim being made by two people present at the site, Jim Sneddon & Nicolette Thompson, that the bird was not seen at the Wallaroo Circuit site that morning. However, there have been two lists entered onto ebird by two different observers from Friday morning at two different starting times 0800 and 1000, that both record the Yellow Bittern at the lagoon as well as one at 0810 that only recorded the Australian Little Bittern so I don’t know at what time the bird left the Lagoon and went to the golf course but it appears from these lists that in fact, it was present at the Lagoon despite their claims to the contrary. It seems that my intended message that the bird had left the site and its whereabouts were unknown was unappreciated by you lot. However, if you’d all attended the site and later found out that the Birdline Moderators had known that the bird had left and NOT alerted you to the fact, there would still be sour comments made. It is your good fortune that the bird has returned. I also point out that I am not, have not and will not be asking for anyone to be named and shamed and I hope the above information is enough to settle the disgruntlement that you people seem to feel entitled to express and share publicly (also known as bullying) with complete disregard to the humiliation and damage you do to other’s reputations. In the words of the wise BQ member above – CALM DOWN CHILDREN. Sandra Gallienne —–Original Message—– Colin R Sent: Sunday, 13 July 2014 6:31 PM Well said Nicci I wasn’t there on Friday but I was on Saturday morning from dawn until 8.30am or thereabouts. I hadn’t read Ms Gallienne’s ‘instruction’ at that time, but it was a topic of discussion on site. I later met a birder offsite who had not gone to North Lakes because of her ‘directions’! My post of Saturday on Eremaea which described the group of birders on site that morning has been removed. I have requested an explanation for that. All in all the birders and photographers who were present on Saturday morning were, as I said in my ‘sighting’ report “quiet and respectful’ and the bird/s completely undisturbed – and, I understand from someone who was present on Friday, a similar situation was experienced that morning too – as the numerous reports since have also described. I, too, want to know how Ms Gallienne feels she has the authority to instruct birders on their behaviour and, or, whether they should visit a site? The claims of damaged vegetation, disturbed birds and bad behaviour by photographers are causing unnecessary grief and recrimination and driving a split in the birding community in SE Qld – even drawing comments from people interstate, for God’s sake, who aren’t here and don’t know the individuals concerned! If this is really happening – provide proof. Otherwise stop throwing it around and move on. Life is too short. Colin On Sun, Jul 13, 2014, at 04:23 PM, Nicolette Thompson wrote: — Colin Reid jangles@fastmail.fm So many birds, so little time…… — http://www.fastmail.fm – Same, same, but different… _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Thanks for writing this Nicci. Great to hear on every level. Cheers Dave Stowe On 13/07/2014, at 4:23 PM, Nicolette Thompson < thompson.nicolette8@gmail.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
hi Nicci, Brendon & others… my “name & shame” outburst was made purely on the assumption that Sandra’s lengthy comment was indeed accurate, & hence caused myself, Kevin Bartram, Denise Longfellow & a few others to react how we did. if Sandra’s comment had been accurate then I would stand in this position. however it seems that her comment was NOT accurate at all, & therefore my “name & shame” outburst was not necessary… BUT, if what Sandra reported did happen again in a similar way & there was evidence that it did, then I would happily do exactly the same thing again & encourage any witnesses to such misbehaviour to get their car rego or similar so that they can be “named & shamed”!! I too possess a camera with a big white lens, so I consider myself an avid birder who takes reasonable photos of birds & other wildlife, so I have nothing against those who do the same – just those who disturb the wildlife in a selfish way… this isn’t an apology, just an explanation. cheers, martin cachard, cairns 0428 782 808 _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Well said Nicci I wasn’t there on Friday but I was on Saturday morning from dawn until 8.30am or thereabouts. I hadn’t read Ms Gallienne’s ‘instruction’ at that time, but it was a topic of discussion on site. I later met a birder offsite who had not gone to North Lakes because of her ‘directions’! My post of Saturday on Eremaea which described the group of birders on site that morning has been removed. I have requested an explanation for that. All in all the birders and photographers who were present on Saturday morning were, as I said in my ‘sighting’ report “quiet and respectful’ and the bird/s completely undisturbed – and, I understand from someone who was present on Friday, a similar situation was experienced that morning too – as the numerous reports since have also described. I, too, want to know how Ms Gallienne feels she has the authority to instruct birders on their behaviour and, or, whether they should visit a site? The claims of damaged vegetation, disturbed birds and bad behaviour by photographers are causing unnecessary grief and recrimination and driving a split in the birding community in SE Qld – even drawing comments from people interstate, for God’s sake, who aren’t here and don’t know the individuals concerned! If this is really happening – provide proof. Otherwise stop throwing it around and move on. Life is too short. Colin On Sun, Jul 13, 2014, at 04:23 PM, Nicolette Thompson wrote: — Colin Reid jangles@fastmail.fm So many birds, so little time…… — http://www.fastmail.fm – Same, same, but different… _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Thank you for all that Nicci. I’ll be there on Wednesday – from Adelaide. —–Original Message—– Nicolette Thompson Sent: Sunday, 13 July 2014 3:53 PM I was one of the birders at North Lakes on Friday. I saw the email from Sandra Gallienne when I arrived home last night and immediately let her know that her account of the day was not based on fact. I did this in the hope that she would retract her statement and thus avoid the usual acrimonious emails. She has neither done this nor responded to me. On Friday morning the Yellow Bittern was not at the lake where Paul had seen it. When I and a friend arrived we met two birders who had been there since early morning and who had not seen the bird. It was not FLUSHED by birders or photographers. It simply was not there. I did speak to a few folk who had left the footpaths contrary to Paul’s request. Some moved back immediately and only a couple remained where they were. There are always a couple of people in any group to whom any considerations don’t apply, aren’t there? Anyway they didn’t flush or chase the bird as it wasn’t there. The waterfowl were foraging or loafing in and around the lake and were in no way perturbed by the dozen or so watchers plus various bikers, walkers and dog walkers who I guess are regulars in the area. Late morning a gentleman came back to the lake to let us know that the YB was across the road at the Golf Club. There was no great rush across. As the message spread folk walked across to the pond to watch or photograph the bird. Eventually officials from the Gold Club came to talk to us because the pond was in the line of fire from the golfers and it was a safety issue. They were very interested once they knew what we were doing. After a discussion about safety issues versus our interests they were going to work on some management strategies for the following day so that both could be satisfied. We left at midday, so I can’t comment on anything that happened after that . Sadly, Sandra’s email has caused a lot of angst and unnecessary back-biting on this forum. I would also like to know on what grounds Sandra has given herself the authority to tell us that ‘birders are now asked to refrain from visiting this site’ Nicci Thompson _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
and didn’t the usual photographer-baggers on the site love jumping on the band wagon! Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
FWIW, eBird is reporting the Yellow Bittern is still present through, July 12th. It is being reported by numerous observers. http://ebird.org/ebird/alert/summary?sid=SN35665 On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 14:24:48 +1000, “Sandra Gallienne” < sandraga1630@gmail.com> wrote: — Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA “It turns out we’re very good at not seeing things” – Jack Hitt _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Well I for one would do so if I knew who they were !!! —–Original Message—– martin cachard Sent: Saturday, 12 July 2014 6:56 AM Cc: birding-aus@birding-aus.org maybe the observers that approached irresponsibly should be named & shamed… on here would be the perfect forum for that!! does anyone care to ID these idiots…??? i’m surprised they didn’t use playback too!!!! martin cachard, cairns wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
They certainly don’t sound like photographers – more like selfish idiots with cameras. All the real photographers that i know up there knew how close it already was without having to disturb it at all and came home with amazing images. But whatever you want to call them, i agree with Kevin’s comments below. I was trying to work out how to get up there too. Such a shame that now other people aren’t able to see this amazing bird so easily. Cheers Dave Stowe On 12/07/2014, at 7:37 AM, Kev Lobotomi < kevlobotomi@hotmail.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
I seem to remember suggesting that re the photographers and birders who disturbed the Red Goshawk at Mataranka. Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow PO Box 71 Darwin River, NT, Australia 0841 PhD candidate goodfellow@bigpond.com.au Founding Member: Ecotourism Australia Founding Member: Australian Federation of Graduate Women Northern Territory 043 8650 835 On 12 Jul 2014, at 6:55 am, martin cachard < mcachard@hotmail.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Hi all I was thinking of going up there to see and photograph this bird. One I have never seen. But this behavior has spoilt it for everyone. I am a photographer and would love to see the yellow bittern, but I am also mindful of the care taken in not trying to flush the bird, and this was spelt out when the bird was reported. I very much doubt that I will get up there now because of these dramas. I don’t think there is anything wrong wth photographing birds, but common sense must be used especially in this situation. Kevin bartram — Original Message — Sent: 12 July 2014 7:25 AM Cc: birding-aus@birding-aus.org maybe the observers that approached irresponsibly should be named & shamed… on here would be the perfect forum for that!! does anyone care to ID these idiots…??? i’m surprised they didn’t use playback too!!!! martin cachard, cairns _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
maybe the observers that approached irresponsibly should be named & shamed… on here would be the perfect forum for that!! does anyone care to ID these idiots…??? i’m surprised they didn’t use playback too!!!! martin cachard, cairns _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Unfortunately Carl, you’re spot on. Sandra, I’m really sorry to hear of this behaviour. Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow PO Box 71 Darwin River, NT, Australia 0841 PhD candidate goodfellow@bigpond.com.au Founding Member: Ecotourism Australia Founding Member: Australian Federation of Graduate Women Northern Territory 043 8650 835 On 11 Jul 2014, at 8:13 pm, Carl Clifford < carlsclifford@gmail.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Predictable. Carl Clifford _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org