Following previous discussion on Birding-Aus on the possible split, the latest IOC list v 2.6 has split the White-naped Honeyeater (Melithreptus lunatus) into the Swan River Honeyeater (Melithreptus chloropsis), which occurs in SW Western Australia (N to Swan River Plain and Wheatbelt in W).
Regards,
Bruce
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http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/species/taxonomy.html shows they base it on Sibley and Munroe. But that page is very out of date as it shows the old C&B for a start (thanks to Jen for pointing that out to me!)
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G’day Dave,
As far as I can determine international lists are based on consultation with resident experts from various parts of the globe as part of the list forming process.
No list is necessarily perfect, Carl Clifford mentioned the Index of Organism Names as his preferred source. I have just had a quick look at the ION list and for Melithreptus species along with chloropsis, it includes additionally, augustus, atricapillus, autralensis, calceolatus, formosanus, fuscus, Kuwayamae, laetior, limulatus, luna tus, melanocephalus, scriptus and suzukii. I won’t be rushing to add all of these to my Australian list!.
What you should all be asking for is a re-forming of the BA taxonomic review committee, wouldn’t that be the best way to accommodate the ongoing changing taxonomic profile.
Cheers Jeff.
Do you mean “not to accept”?
I would agree except that as far as I know both organisations promote the C&B list as their standard.
Should BA and BOCA merge then the current plan would have them affiliated with Birdlife International, who maintain their own International list ( http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/species/taxonomy.html). A (very) quick search appears to show that they do not accept the White-naped split!
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Aaargh! you are right. Mea culpa. It indeed should have been “not to accept”.
Out of interest, on who’s taxonomy does BI base their list, or are they making up their own?
Carl Clifford
Do you mean “not to accept”?
I would agree except that as far as I know both organisations promote the C&B list as their standard.
Should BA and BOCA merge then the current plan would have them affiliated with Birdlife International, who maintain their own International list (http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/species/taxonomy.html ). A (very) quick search appears to show that they do not accept the White-naped split!
Jen,
Thalassarche carteri is accepted by ION as a species, so there is no reason for BA / BOCA to accept it as a species.
Cheers,
Carl Clifford
Hi all,
Following on from Dave’s comments, by default, we are already starting to use international lists for Australian purposes.
For example, BOCA and Birds Australia are currently participating in the Birdlife International “Important Bird Area” project (IBA). This is an international project where many countries around the world have declared certain areas “important” for the protection of “threatened species”. These areas are selected to protect habitat for birds listed on the IUCN Red List of Endangered Species. Australia has accepted the IUCN Red list and has selected IBAs based on birds that are included on the IUCN Red list.
In most cases this is fine, but not always. Just to illustrate the potential/actual conflicts, the IUCN recognizes the Indian Yellow-nosed Albatross (*Thalassarche carteri* ) as a threatened species, not a race. Races, threatened or otherwise, are not included in the IBA project, only species. This means that for our international participation with the IBA project, Birds Australia / BOCA treat *Thalassarche carteri* as a species but for local Australian purposes, using C & B 2008, *Thalassarche carteri*is classified as a race of *Thalassarche chlororhynchos*, not a full species.
Now, I agree that the Alboatross/Mollymawk group is a very contentious group but this example is just one and the situation could apply to other Australian species both currently on, or eligible for listing with, the IUCN Red list.
Perhaps a solution is for BA/BOCA to constitute a group of people, along the lines of BARC (possibly including C & B if they are interested), to assess proposed changes as they arise. These changes could then be adopted as updates to C & B 2008, without the need to totally rewrite the one list every ten years or so.
Also, if there is any scientific / popular wish to keep using an Australian generated list, and I think there is especially in the selection of Common Names, then I believe our Australian generated list needs to be maintained before our international obligations send us to an internationally generated and maintained list, by default. For an example of this problem, in general communications here and elsewhere, *Melithreptus chloropsis* is already attracting two common names, Western White-naped Honeyeater and Swan River White-naped Honeyeater.
Cheers
Jen
Perhaps it is time for Australia to accept one of the International taxonomies as our “official” (whatever that means) scheme. C&B will be come increasingly out of date as the rest of the world splits our species. BARC clearly is an arbiter of “vagrants” and this is a totally separate process from the taxonomy used.
Hi Colin Melithreptus chloropsis is listed as a full species on the ION (Index of Organism Names) database, so it must be kosher. The ION is the international arbiter of Zoological and Mycological species and it is up to them to decide if a species stands or not.
I don’t think there will be another edition of C&B, I think 2 editions was enough for them. It will probably be up to other authors to take up the challenge. Perhaps it will appear in a new edition of HANZAB, but I don’t think that will happen in the little tenure I have left on life.
Cheers,
Carl Clifford
Hello birders.
So, is the Swan River (or Western) Honeyeater now an official tick?
What’s the procedure in between editions of Christidis and Boles?
Is this a matter for BARC to buy into?
Colin Scouler.
Begin forwarded message:
birdswa@yahoogroups.com
Following previous discussion on Birding-Aus on the possible split, the latest IOC list v 2.6 has split the White-naped Honeyeater (Melithreptus lunatus) into the Swan River Honeyeater (Melithreptus chloropsis), which occurs in SW Western Australia (N to Swan River Plain and Wheatbelt in W).
Regards,
Bruce
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Jen,
Thalassarche carteri is accepted by ION as a species, so there is no reason for BA / BOCA to accept it as a species.
Cheers,
Carl Clifford
Hi all,
Following on from Dave’s comments, by default, we are already starting to use international lists for Australian purposes.
For example, BOCA and Birds Australia are currently participating in the Birdlife International “Important Bird Area” project (IBA). This is an international project where many countries around the world have declared certain areas “important” for the protection of “threatened species”. These areas are selected to protect habitat for birds listed on the IUCN Red List of Endangered Species. Australia has accepted the IUCN Red list and has selected IBAs based on birds that are included on the IUCN Red list.
In most cases this is fine, but not always. Just to illustrate the potential/actual conflicts, the IUCN recognizes the Indian Yellow-nosed Albatross (*Thalassarche carteri* ) as a threatened species, not a race. Races, threatened or otherwise, are not included in the IBA project, only species. This means that for our international participation with the IBA project, Birds Australia / BOCA treat *Thalassarche carteri* as a species but for local Australian purposes, using C & B 2008, *Thalassarche carteri*is classified as a race of *Thalassarche chlororhynchos*, not a full species.
Now, I agree that the Alboatross/Mollymawk group is a very contentious group but this example is just one and the situation could apply to other Australian species both currently on, or eligible for listing with, the IUCN Red list.
Perhaps a solution is for BA/BOCA to constitute a group of people, along the lines of BARC (possibly including C & B if they are interested), to assess proposed changes as they arise. These changes could then be adopted as updates to C & B 2008, without the need to totally rewrite the one list every ten years or so.
Also, if there is any scientific / popular wish to keep using an Australian generated list, and I think there is especially in the selection of Common Names, then I believe our Australian generated list needs to be maintained before our international obligations send us to an internationally generated and maintained list, by default. For an example of this problem, in general communications here and elsewhere, *Melithreptus chloropsis* is already attracting two common names, Western White-naped Honeyeater and Swan River White-naped Honeyeater.
Cheers
Jen
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From what I have seen, the official lists seem to be somehwat conservative WRT splits. This one seems pretty ironclad anyway. I think developing a relationship and working with one of the international lists is better than trying to ‘go it alone’. The issue with C&B is that it was a published list in a book, and is hence not updateable like the online IOC lists etc. Cas
Jen
Thanks for that, but I fear that any local committee – no matter how distinguished the membership – is inevitably going to lead to the Australian list being different to the one used by the rest of the world (OK – there are various world lists produced by different taxonomists and other bodies, but we should accept one of those) and thus we will always end up with discrepancies such as the Albatrosses.
I think there is clearly a role for Australians in trying to lobby for our choice of names to be used, but I am less convinced that we need a different taxonomy – for example if our local experts decided we did not accept the split of the White-naped we could hardly lobby on what name to use for the Western form!
Dave
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Hi all,
Following on from Dave’s comments, by default, we are already starting to use international lists for Australian purposes.
For example, BOCA and Birds Australia are currently participating in the Birdlife International “Important Bird Area” project (IBA). This is an international project where many countries around the world have declared certain areas “important” for the protection of “threatened species”. These areas are selected to protect habitat for birds listed on the IUCN Red List of Endangered Species. Australia has accepted the IUCN Red list and has selected IBAs based on birds that are included on the IUCN Red list.
In most cases this is fine, but not always. Just to illustrate the potential/actual conflicts, the IUCN recognizes the Indian Yellow-nosed Albatross (*Thalassarche carteri* ) as a threatened species, not a race. Races, threatened or otherwise, are not included in the IBA project, only species. This means that for our international participation with the IBA project, Birds Australia / BOCA treat *Thalassarche carteri* as a species but for local Australian purposes, using C & B 2008, *Thalassarche carteri*is classified as a race of *Thalassarche chlororhynchos*, not a full species.
Now, I agree that the Alboatross/Mollymawk group is a very contentious group but this example is just one and the situation could apply to other Australian species both currently on, or eligible for listing with, the IUCN Red list.
Perhaps a solution is for BA/BOCA to constitute a group of people, along the lines of BARC (possibly including C & B if they are interested), to assess proposed changes as they arise. These changes could then be adopted as updates to C & B 2008, without the need to totally rewrite the one list every ten years or so.
Also, if there is any scientific / popular wish to keep using an Australian generated list, and I think there is especially in the selection of Common Names, then I believe our Australian generated list needs to be maintained before our international obligations send us to an internationally generated and maintained list, by default. For an example of this problem, in general communications here and elsewhere, *Melithreptus chloropsis* is already attracting two common names, Western White-naped Honeyeater and Swan River White-naped Honeyeater.
Cheers
Jen
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I think I can see a taxonomic equivalent to the “quantitative easing” employed by central banks to ward off depression. 😉
Regards, Laurie.
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Actually thinking about it a little more it is clear that BARC uses a taxonomy other than C&B for “new” species for Australia. Perhaps a BARC member would care to comment on what that taxonomy is and why Australian birders should not move towards using that for the Australian list, rather than having the current scenario of using C&B plus the BARC list? I am in no way denigrating the work of C&B – it is just that it is in the interests of the general birding community that the “official” Australian list be kept up to date, and if (as I understand it) there are no further plans for new editions of C&B then there has to be some process to adopt a different list?
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Perhaps it is time for Australia to accept one of the International taxonomies as our “official” (whatever that means) scheme. C&B will be come increasingly out of date as the rest of the world splits our species. BARC clearly is an arbiter of “vagrants” and this is a totally separate process from the taxonomy used.
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Carl,
Melithreptus chloropsis may or may not actually be kosher. It depends what they feed on and how you kill them.
Shalom!
Graham Buchan
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Hi Colin Melithreptus chloropsis is listed as a full species on the ION (Index of Organism Names) database, so it must be kosher. The ION is the international arbiter of Zoological and Mycological species and it is up to them to decide if a species stands or not.
I don’t think there will be another edition of C&B, I think 2 editions was enough for them. It will probably be up to other authors to take up the challenge. Perhaps it will appear in a new edition of HANZAB, but I don’t think that will happen in the little tenure I have left on life.
Cheers,
Carl Clifford
Hello birders.
So, is the Swan River (or Western) Honeyeater now an official tick?
What’s the procedure in between editions of Christidis and Boles?
Is this a matter for BARC to buy into?
Colin Scouler.
Begin forwarded message:
href=”mailto:birding-aus-request@vicnet.net.au”>birding-aus-request@vicnet.net.au
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