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Vanellus miles/novaehollandiae

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Hi Friends,

You can see Les Christridis backs me up!

John Penhallurick

From: Les Christidis [mailto:les.christidis@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 3:46 PM To: John Penhallurick Subject: Re: Vanellus miles/novaehollandiae

Dear John

As usual I think you have made a very astute observation. The extent of hybridisation in species complexes based on museum collections is always a gross over estimate. Museum collectors mainly target hybrid individuals in apparent zones of integradation. I well remember trying to collect Vanellus miles hybrids up north when I was with CSIRO. Dick Schodde insisted we only collected hybrids.

cheers

Les

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 9:43 PM, John Penhallurick wrote:

Hi Les,

I have been getting more and more suspicious that the lumping of Vanellus miles and Vanellus novaehollandiae is unjustified. Even Peters (1934), that super-lumper kep them separate. They were merged on the basis of interbreeding around Cairns and in the Lake Eyre Basin. Now I am sure you are aware that the thinking about the significance of hybridisation has changed radically of late. I haed an email from a birder in Cairns who told me that the common Vanellus there was miles. Novaehollandiae is rare, as are hybrids. I haven’t been able to get any reliable data from the Lake Eyre Basin. Birders rarely go there and none of the landholders knows anything about birds. But given the situation around Cairns, I would be very surprised if it was very different around Lake Eyre. I know that an ornithologist from the SA Museum brought back a set of hybirds, but if he set out to collect hybrids, this means nothing.

What do you thinK?

Thanks

Dr John Penhallurick

86 Bingley Cres

Fraser A.C.T. 2615

Australia

email:jpenhall@bigpond.net.au

Phone: Home (612) 62585428

Mobile:0408585426

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Comments

2 responses to “Vanellus miles/novaehollandiae”

  1. martin cachard Avatar
    martin cachard

    Hi John & everyone else,

    I was the birder in Cairns that pointed out to you John, the relative abundance of miles, novaehollandiae, & hybrids, around the local Cairns area some months ago.

    Your memory is correct – hybrids & apparent pure novaehollandiae are seen here only rarely. John, I have attached an image I’ve taken up here on the Cairns Esplanade a couple of years ago of a good hybrid – not sure if it’s of much use, but I thought I’d share it with you in any case… This individual is still here in the same territory & is paired with an apparent pure miles.

    I am heading to far SW Qld in just over a month, so I will check the birds I see out there & report back to you on my return…

    To my ear, they do call differently to one another as well.

    Cheers for now,

    Martin Cachard,

    Cairns,

    0428 782 808

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  2. "Robert Inglis" Avatar
    “Robert Inglis”

    If Les Christidis couldn’t be sure he was collecting Vanellus miles hybrids, how would I be able to determine if I was seeing non-hybrids or…………….hybrids? Note: that is a rhetorical question and I am just thinking out loud.

    I do wish I had photographed that ‘spur-winged plover’ (I’m from a previous era – and Queensland) I saw on the airstrip at Birdsville in the 1980s. That has been bugging me ever since then.

    Bob Inglis Sandstone Point Qld ===============================

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