Re Bintel Syd

 I have bought binoculars, a Scope and now new binoculars from Bintel in Syd and find them excellent.  I have dealt with Michael but there are/were several Michaels who work there) and he has patiently let me look at scopes, binoculars etc till I found what I wanted.  Highly Recommended. Joan Wharton 10/17 Tungarra Rd Girraween NSW 2145 02 88101843    Mob 0416530313 —– Original Message —– From: birding-aus@birding-aus.org To: Cc: Sent:Tue, 05 Jan 2016 12:00:09 -0500 Subject:Birding-Aus Digest, Vol 27, Issue 8 Send Birding-Aus mailing list submissions to birding-aus@birding-aus.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body ‘help’ to birding-aus-request@birding-aus.org You can reach the person managing the list at birding-aus-owner@birding-aus.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than “Re: Contents of Birding-Aus digest…” Today’s Topics: 1. Video Highlights Hauraki Gulf Pelagic, New Zealand (Pieter de Groot Boersma) 2. Lake Cargelligo area – mini report (Jason McHattan) 3. The Decline of BA (Jenny Spry) 4. Paradise Shelduck (James Mustafa) 5. Re: The Decline of BA (John Leonard) 6. Re: The Decline of BA (Steve Clark) 7. Re: The Decline of BA (Stephen Ambrose) 8. Re: The Decline of BA (David Adams) 9. The Decline of BA (Graeme Stevens) 10. Re: The Decline of BA (Jenny Spry) 11. Re: The Decline of BA (Tony Russell) 12. The Decline of BA (Lawrie Conole) 13. Re: The Decline of BA (Peter Madvig) 14. Re: The Decline of BA (Bill Stent) 15. Re: The Decline of BA (Peter Shute) 16. Re: The Decline of BA (John Leonard) 17. Re: The Decline of BA (Kim Sterelny) 18. Re: The Decline of BA (Carl Clifford) 19. Re: The Decline of BA (Penny Brockman) 20. Re: The Decline of BA (Carl Clifford) 21. Swarovski Spotting scope and eyepieces for Sale (david taylor) 22. Re: The Decline of BA (Tony Russell) 23. Optics (grant quist) 24. Re: Optics (Kim Sterelny) 25. Re: The Decline of BA (Philip Veerman) 26. Re: The Decline of BA (Peter Shute) 27. Re: The Decline of BA (A Smith) 28. Re: Optics (Martin Butterfield) 29. Re: The Decline of BA (Peter Shute) 30. The Decline of BA (Steve Clark) 31. Re: Optics (Carl Clifford) 32. OBP rat deaths. (Carl Clifford) 33. Re: The Decline of BA (R. Bruce Richardson) 34. The decline of B-A (Vader Willem Jan Marinus) 35. {Disarmed} The Decline of BA (Rohan Clarke) 36. Re: The Decline of BA (Russell Woodford) ———————————————————————- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 17:46:31 +0000 From: Pieter de Groot Boersma To: “birding-aus@birding-aus.org” Subject: [Birding-Aus] Video Highlights Hauraki Gulf Pelagic, New Zealand Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”iso-8859-1″ Hi people, Video highlights from the amazing Hauraki Gulf Pelagic I did back in November ’14! Includes footage of the iconic New Zealand Storm-petrel, which was feared extinct since 1850 until refound in 2003 in this gulf. Also including several seabirds who only breed in the Hauraki Gulf or have a very restricted breeding range, like Buller’s Shearwater, Black Petrel, Cook’s Petrel and Fluttering Shearwater! http://ibc.lynxeds.com/news/video-highlights-hauraki-gulf-new-zealand Best reagrds, Pieter de Groot Boersma —————————— Message: 2 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 09:04:35 +1100 (EST) From: Jason McHattan To: birding-aus@birding-aus.org Subject: [Birding-Aus] Lake Cargelligo area – mini report Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi All, You may remember I asked for info on the Lake Cargelligo (LC) area a month or so ago. I received quite a bit of useful info from various members, which I am very thankful for. We ended up heading off on the afternoon of the 28th, and spent the night in Bathurst, before heading for LC, via Gum Swamp at Forbes. Gum Swamp was great, as was the treatment plant at LC that evening. Next morning we headed out through Chat Alley to Nombinnie and Round Hill Nature Reserves. Temperatures were up around 35^, and bird activity was lower than I expected. LC had lots of Whiskered Terns and Red-capped Plovers. The following day we headed down the Rankin Springs Rd, which was full of bird life. Ringnecks (Barnardi), Blue Bonnets, and Cicadabirds were in abundance along the sides of the road. We pulled in to Pulletop NR, which was almost dead, just a few Yellow-plumed and Spiny-cheeked Honeyeaters. Our last birding stop was at Fivebough Wetlands in Leeton that evening. This place was thriving, but is quite overgrown, so it’s difficult to actually see any of the birds on the water. There was a lot of bird traffic coming and going though. Some new species for me that we did see were Australian Crake, Magpie Goose, and Glossy Ibis. There was also a family of four Black-shouldered Kite’s out hunting. As we were walking along the track through the reeds we spotted a fox up ahead with an Australian Wood Duck in it’s mouth. It stood there looking at us for about 20 seconds, starting towards us, stopping, starting, stopping….. he obviously wanted to go past us. He eventually scurried into the reeds, but just as he did we spotted a very large Red-bellied Black Snake on the track right next to him! The snake disappeared into the reeds as we approached, and we gingerly walked past. Only one other birder was spotted during the whole trip, a lady we met in passing at Nombinnie. Highlights for me were: – The juvenile Emu that fell over on the road in front of us in Nombinnie (we were stopped) and was so panicked it couldn’t get up, just legs and feathers everywhere! – Red-capped Robins on the climb to the top of Round Hill. – Rainbow Bee-eaters in Nombinnie NR. – Raptors everywhere once we were West of Bathurst. Overall we had an enjoyable road trip. I’d love to visit some of those places again, but I think the quantity of birdlife would be greater at a cooler time of the year. Cheers, Jason. Kind Regards, Jason McHattan Support Engineer Broadcast and Professional _____________________________________ Amber Technology Limited Unit 1, 2 Daydream Street, Warriewood NSW 2102 Australia P: +61 (0) 2 9452 8600 F: +61 (0) 2 9975 1368 E: jmchattan@ambertech.com.au W: www.ambertech.com.au —————————— Message: 3 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 10:07:25 +1100 From: Jenny Spry To: birding-aus Subject: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi all, I agree totally that Facebook is useless for archive searching and much good information is going to be lost. Birding-Aus has been an invaluable resource for me over the years and I hope I have sometimes provided help to others. And yes, it is sad to see the demise of the road trip reports. Having said all that I don’t submit to Birding Aus any more because of all the “trolls” that used to contact me complaining that: I had spelt a word wrong That I actually didn’t know what I was talking about That going on a twitch was a waste of the worlds limited resources That keeping a year list/life list was not in the spirit of birding Etc etc etc Sadly the above comments were usually couched in words meant to demean or cause discomfort. So, on Fb I can screen out people who make these types of comment or make tasteless attempts at humour and my enjoyment of communicating with fellow birders has increased because I no longer fear I am going to be attacked. If Birding-Aus had a strong commitment to banning abusive mail, and had a place I could forward abusive mail that had been sent to me privately that would see the sender banned, I would love to come back. I could even submit a report of my latest 2 day 1600 km road dash to see the Paradise Shelduck that would have included the contact details for accommodation at Culburra and where the best food in town was. cheers Jenny http://jenniferspryausbirding.blogspot.com.au/ —————————— Message: 4 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 10:27:39 +1100 From: James Mustafa To: birding-aus@birding-aus.org Subject: [Birding-Aus] Paradise Shelduck Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Paradise Shelduck still present this morning. Only about 1.4km walk around from the car park on the shoreline loosely associating with Grey Teal. Observed with Sue Taylor. All the best, James Mustafa 0400 951 517 www.jamesmustafajazzorchestra.com www.jamesmustafabirding.blogspot.com.au —————————— Message: 5 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 10:44:44 +1100 From: John Leonard To: Jenny Spry Cc: birding-aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Jenny I am astonished and saddened to hear of your BA experiences. I have been a reader and contributor to BA for 20 years, and in that time have made my views known on a number of topics, but during all that time I have not received a single email of an abusive nature. (There have been a few robust responses to my contributions, but only sent to the group as a whole). Is it that trolls only target women? Anyway, I’m sorry we do not now have your contributions because of his harassment. John Leonard > On 5 Jan 2016, at 10:07 am, Jenny Spry wrote: > > Hi all, > > I agree totally that Facebook is useless for archive searching and much > good information is going to be lost. Birding-Aus has been an invaluable > resource for me over the years and I hope I have sometimes provided help to > others. And yes, it is sad to see the demise of the road trip reports. > > Having said all that I don’t submit to Birding Aus any more because of all > the “trolls” that used to contact me complaining that: > I had spelt a word wrong > That I actually didn’t know what I was talking about > That going on a twitch was a waste of the worlds limited resources > That keeping a year list/life list was not in the spirit of birding > Etc etc etc > Sadly the above comments were usually couched in words meant to demean or > cause discomfort. > > So, on Fb I can screen out people who make these types of comment or make > tasteless attempts at humour and my enjoyment of communicating with fellow > birders has increased because I no longer fear I am going to be attacked. > > If Birding-Aus had a strong commitment to banning abusive mail, and had a > place I could forward abusive mail that had been sent to me privately that > would see the sender banned, I would love to come back. I could even submit > a report of my latest 2 day 1600 km road dash to see the Paradise Shelduck > that would have included the contact details for accommodation at Culburra > and where the best food in town was. > > cheers > > Jenny > http://jenniferspryausbirding.blogspot.com.au/ > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > —————————— Message: 6 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 10:52:50 +1100 From: Steve Clark To: Birding-Aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 G’day all Jenny Spry maintains an excellent blog at jenniferspryausbirding.blogspot.com.au full of interesting trip reports. It is also Google searchable unlike Facebook posts. Who else does this? I did one for my time in Tanzania but not generally ( http://bukobasteve.blogspot.com.au/). Cheers Steve Clark Hamilton, Vic On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 10:44 AM, John Leonard wrote: > Hi Jenny > > I am astonished and saddened to hear of your BA experiences. > > I have been a reader and contributor to BA for 20 years, and in that time > have made my views known on a number of topics, but during all that time I > have not received a single email of an abusive nature. (There have been a > few robust responses to my contributions, but only sent to the group as a > whole). > > Is it that trolls only target women? > > Anyway, I’m sorry we do not now have your contributions because of his > harassment. > > > John Leonard > > > On 5 Jan 2016, at 10:07 am, Jenny Spry wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I agree totally that Facebook is useless for archive searching and much > > good information is going to be lost. Birding-Aus has been an invaluable > > resource for me over the years and I hope I have sometimes provided help > to > > others. And yes, it is sad to see the demise of the road trip reports. > > > > Having said all that I don’t submit to Birding Aus any more because of > all > > the “trolls” that used to contact me complaining that: > > I had spelt a word wrong > > That I actually didn’t know what I was talking about > > That going on a twitch was a waste of the worlds limited resources > > That keeping a year list/life list was not in the spirit of birding > > Etc etc etc > > Sadly the above comments were usually couched in words meant to demean or > > cause discomfort. > > > > So, on Fb I can screen out people who make these types of comment or make > > tasteless attempts at humour and my enjoyment of communicating with > fellow > > birders has increased because I no longer fear I am going to be attacked. > > > > If Birding-Aus had a strong commitment to banning abusive mail, and had a > > place I could forward abusive mail that had been sent to me privately > that > > would see the sender banned, I would love to come back. I could even > submit > > a report of my latest 2 day 1600 km road dash to see the Paradise > Shelduck > > that would have included the contact details for accommodation at > Culburra > > and where the best food in town was. > > > > cheers > > > > Jenny > > http://jenniferspryausbirding.blogspot.com.au/ > > > > Birding-Aus mailing list > > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > > > > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > > —————————— Message: 7 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 11:09:44 +1100 From: “Stephen Ambrose” To: “‘Jenny Spry'” , “‘birding-aus'” Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”us-ascii” Jenny, I hope you and others do return to making contributions to BA. I’d love to hear about your 2-day road trip to Culburra, for instance. For me, the value of BA is the ability of contributors to share their knowledge about birds and bird-watching. Sometimes there are great in-depth discussions on a broad range of topics which you wouldn’t find elsewhere because other forums don’t provide that opportunity (word limits or formats). As a community, we have a broad range of expertise that is not just limited to birds and birding, which some of us are willing to share with others. Of course, there is also the invaluable archival value of this information that others have commented on. I hope all that continues. I have belonged to a number of online discussion groups (not just limited to birds) and I have to say that BA is the most successful of them all in terms of sharing information and promoting further discussion. Of course, BA is not perfect and is open to abuse. I have no time for sledging, “birdy politics” and grandstanding, and it is unfortunate that these behaviours sometimes exist on BA and others are deterred from contributing to BA because of them. I think that the BA moderators have been extremely good at minimising this behaviour over the years but, of course, some occasionally slip through and moderators have no control over abusive emails being sent directly to individual subscribers. I think it would be a very sad day if and when BA closed down. Kind regards, Stephen Stephen Ambrose Ryde, NSW —–Original Message—– From: Birding-Aus [mailto:birding-aus-bounces@birding-aus.org] On Behalf Of Jenny Spry Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 10:07 AM To: birding-aus Subject: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Hi all, I agree totally that Facebook is useless for archive searching and much good information is going to be lost. Birding-Aus has been an invaluable resource for me over the years and I hope I have sometimes provided help to others. And yes, it is sad to see the demise of the road trip reports. Having said all that I don’t submit to Birding Aus any more because of all the “trolls” that used to contact me complaining that: I had spelt a word wrong That I actually didn’t know what I was talking about That going on a twitch was a waste of the worlds limited resources That keeping a year list/life list was not in the spirit of birding Etc etc etc Sadly the above comments were usually couched in words meant to demean or cause discomfort. So, on Fb I can screen out people who make these types of comment or make tasteless attempts at humour and my enjoyment of communicating with fellow birders has increased because I no longer fear I am going to be attacked. If Birding-Aus had a strong commitment to banning abusive mail, and had a place I could forward abusive mail that had been sent to me privately that would see the sender banned, I would love to come back. I could even submit a report of my latest 2 day 1600 km road dash to see the Paradise Shelduck that would have included the contact details for accommodation at Culburra and where the best food in town was. cheers Jenny http://jenniferspryausbirding.blogspot.com.au/ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org —————————— Message: 8 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 11:43:15 +1100 From: David Adams To: Birding Aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 For trip reports anywhere in the world, try: http://www.cloudbirders.com/tripreport 414 for Australia just now. The month filter is pretty handy. Click on a country and you get a small graph that shows how many reports were recorded in each month of the year, which is also pretty handy when you’re figuring out somewhere you don’t know at all. —————————— Message: 9 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 11:44:02 +1100 From: Graeme Stevens To: Stephen Ambrose , ‘Jenny Spry’ , ‘birding-aus’ Subject: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”iso-8859-1″ Amen to that Stephen, While more a receiver of birding-aus contributors’ knowledge than a giver I must confess, I try my best to assist people who ask for help when I do have knowledge of a subject or am able to respond to an RFI on a particular location. Often direct rather than to the group. I must say I have never experienced the personal symptoms of “decline” as mentioned by Jenny even when engaging in discussion. Facebook has its uses and private Blogs can also be great,but birding-aus is a fabulous resource and long may it prosper. Best to all for great birding in 2016 Graeme Stevens —————————— Message: 10 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 11:43:29 +1100 From: Jenny Spry To: John Leonard Cc: birding-aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi John and B-A, In the context of this discussion I think the phrase “robust responses” could have something to do with the problem. Maybe it is all in the interpretation, and how the receiver feels about getting “robust responses”. Oh, and please don’t read any of the following as a general comment on the 99% of wonderful and very interesting B-A contributors, the people currently in this thread – this is for the 1% who do act as trolls, and so far they have not joined in. If I am sent a “robust response” in public I am unlikely to make another post so as to avoid a second such response. When it is sent to me in private I feel especially threatened; I had one case where I replied to the sender requesting that he never contact me again and his reply was that that was not possible because he sent so many emails he would never be able to remember who had asked him not to send emails; and that was when I dropped out of B-A. Sigh. In general it is interesting to me that “sledging” and “robust communication” are now seen as being acceptable forms of communication. And I do think that there is a gender difference (not “sexist”) in how communications are sent and received. Male to male “sledging” and “robust communication” seems, to me anyway, to be a form of verbal jousting, a challenge to be met and engaged with. When it is male to female, for me anyway, it is an attack. When it is female to male it seems, to me anyway that, by the “trolls”, the woman will be branded as a “F***king Witch”. Maybe you are right, maybe trolls do only attack women, or perhaps when the trolls attack men it is read as just “robust communication” or “sledging”. Who knows. So much in communication styles have changed and possibly (probably) over the decades I have not changed with them. I will try putting up a few trip reports again but should I get a “sledging” or “robust communication” in private I will post the offending email on B-A and drop out again. I am going to drop out of the thread now before I attract a troll (smile). cheers Jenny On 5 January 2016 at 10:44, John Leonard wrote: > Hi Jenny > > I am astonished and saddened to hear of your BA experiences. > > I have been a reader and contributor to BA for 20 years, and in that time > have made my views known on a number of topics, but during all that time I > have not received a single email of an abusive nature. (There have been a > few robust responses to my contributions, but only sent to the group as a > whole). > > Is it that trolls only target women? > > Anyway, I’m sorry we do not now have your contributions because of his > harassment. > > > John Leonard > > —————————— Message: 11 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 11:44:59 +1030 From: “Tony Russell” To: “‘Jenny Spry'” , “‘birding-aus'” Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”us-ascii” I am a bit surprised that Jenny has been subjected to any sort of nasty response. I can only surmise that most of it has been private mail because I’m sure the moderators on b-a do a reasonably thorough job of cutting out any sort of abuse. They have, often to my surprise, certainly cut out some of my own what I thought were fairly innocuous comments. I have sometimes raised a few contentious points or queries but even they rarely slipped through the net. I have been a subscriber to b-a since the early 90’s and have always been grateful to Russ and others for the service they provide and would urge you all to keep it going. Some information that used to come through b-a is now being transferred to other media and I think this is a pity because not all birders use some of those other feeds and the info fails to reach as comprehensive a list of birders as it used to. It has become much more time consuming to flick through facebook, twitter, etc, as well as b-a. I guess one reason for the change is that the other feeds carry pictures easily whereas b-a is limited to mostly just text and by the no attachment rule imposed some years ago. Don’t worry about the whingeing trolls Jenny, maybe they need to get a life. Just keep up your good work, we are all with you. Tony. —–Original Message—– From: Birding-Aus [mailto:birding-aus-bounces@birding-aus.org] On Behalf Of Jenny Spry Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 9:37 AM To: birding-aus Subject: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Hi all, I agree totally that Facebook is useless for archive searching and much good information is going to be lost. Birding-Aus has been an invaluable resource for me over the years and I hope I have sometimes provided help to others. And yes, it is sad to see the demise of the road trip reports. Having said all that I don’t submit to Birding Aus any more because of all the “trolls” that used to contact me complaining that: I had spelt a word wrong That I actually didn’t know what I was talking about That going on a twitch was a waste of the worlds limited resources That keeping a year list/life list was not in the spirit of birding Etc etc etc Sadly the above comments were usually couched in words meant to demean or cause discomfort. So, on Fb I can screen out people who make these types of comment or make tasteless attempts at humour and my enjoyment of communicating with fellow birders has increased because I no longer fear I am going to be attacked. If Birding-Aus had a strong commitment to banning abusive mail, and had a place I could forward abusive mail that had been sent to me privately that would see the sender banned, I would love to come back. I could even submit a report of my latest 2 day 1600 km road dash to see the Paradise Shelduck that would have included the contact details for accommodation at Culburra and where the best food in town was. cheers Jenny http://jenniferspryausbirding.blogspot.com.au/ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org —————————— Message: 12 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 12:48:42 +1100 From: Lawrie Conole To: “birding-aus@birding-aus.org” Subject: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I’ve been gone from BA for ages; mostly to do with too much email traffic and not enough bird/ing! When I checked the BA archive, there it was – very early posts on BA in 1995 from me, pontificating about various bird-related matters. It seems like a lifetime ago … but a mere 21 years. If BA is indeed in decline, I’m sad to hear that. I’m firmly of the belief that (i) folks place too much faith in Facebook being the vehicle of choice for any useful *long-term* purpose, and (ii) that in the post-Facebook era many will regret exactly the yawning gap in useful accessible information that several other writers here have alluded to. Back in the 1990s I used BA as the vehicle for a survey of field guide users and their preferences. I imagine Facebook or Twitter would be just as useful as an email list for that kind of research. If it comes to searchable associations between birders, birds and places going back decades though, I don’t see the utility or suitability of FB so much. I use Facebook a bit for matters of ephemeral interest and amusement – I tend to use Twitter much more for staying in touch with far flung ecologists, birders, ecological journal papers, etc. Maybe it’s time to get back on BA for a while. Out of interest, how many subscribers are there now? cheers Lawrie —————————— Message: 13 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:00:52 +1100 From: “Peter Madvig” To: “Jenny Spry” , “birding-aus” Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=”iso-8859-1″; reply-type=original Hi Jen, Can’t imagine anyone having been rude to you – they’d not have the courage to do so to your face. So sorry about that. Indeed, I also have had some great benefits by reading trip reports on birding.aus, especially in earlier days with so much to learn. Not posted much for a while, tend to reply direct to people seeking info…I ought to copy the list in, I realise. It really is a wonderful service Thanks Russ and team. Hope to bump into you again, Jenny, binos in hand. Kind regards, Peter Madvig —– Original Message —– From: “Jenny Spry” To: “birding-aus” Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 10:07 AM Subject: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA > Hi all, > > I agree totally that Facebook is useless for archive searching and much > good information is going to be lost. Birding-Aus has been an invaluable > resource for me over the years and I hope I have sometimes provided help > to > others. And yes, it is sad to see the demise of the road trip reports. > > Having said all that I don’t submit to Birding Aus any more because of all > the “trolls” that used to contact me complaining that: > I had spelt a word wrong > That I actually didn’t know what I was talking about > That going on a twitch was a waste of the worlds limited resources > That keeping a year list/life list was not in the spirit of birding > Etc etc etc > Sadly the above comments were usually couched in words meant to demean or > cause discomfort. > > So, on Fb I can screen out people who make these types of comment or make > tasteless attempts at humour and my enjoyment of communicating with fellow > birders has increased because I no longer fear I am going to be attacked. > > If Birding-Aus had a strong commitment to banning abusive mail, and had a > place I could forward abusive mail that had been sent to me privately that > would see the sender banned, I would love to come back. I could even > submit > a report of my latest 2 day 1600 km road dash to see the Paradise Shelduck > that would have included the contact details for accommodation at Culburra > and where the best food in town was. > > cheers > > Jenny > http://jenniferspryausbirding.blogspot.com.au/ > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > > —————————— Message: 14 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 12:55:55 +1100 From: Bill Stent To: Lawrie Conole Cc: “birding-aus@birding-aus.org” Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 As of right now, there are 1,160 members of the email subscription list, Lawrie. Obviously there’s a range of activity levels there. I’m not sure of the membership of the various Facebook groups, but I suspect they have a larger membership. Bill On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 12:48 PM, Lawrie Conole wrote: > I’ve been gone from BA for ages; mostly to do with too much email traffic > and not enough bird/ing! When I checked the BA archive, there it was – very > early posts on BA in 1995 from me, pontificating about various bird-related > matters. It seems like a lifetime ago … but a mere 21 years. > > If BA is indeed in decline, I’m sad to hear that. I’m firmly of the belief > that (i) folks place too much faith in Facebook being the vehicle of choice > for any useful *long-term* purpose, and (ii) that in the post-Facebook era > many will regret exactly the yawning gap in useful accessible information > that several other writers here have alluded to. > > Back in the 1990s I used BA as the vehicle for a survey of field guide > users and their preferences. I imagine Facebook or Twitter would be just as > useful as an email list for that kind of research. If it comes to > searchable associations between birders, birds and places going back > decades though, I don’t see the utility or suitability of FB so much. > > I use Facebook a bit for matters of ephemeral interest and amusement – I > tend to use Twitter much more for staying in touch with far flung > ecologists, birders, ecological journal papers, etc. Maybe it’s time to get > back on BA for a while. Out of interest, how many subscribers are there now? > > cheers > > Lawrie > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > —————————— Message: 15 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 12:59:20 +1100 From: Peter Shute To: Tony Russell Cc: Jenny Spry , birding-aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”us-ascii” Sent from my iPad > On 5 Jan 2016, at 12:28 PM, Tony Russell wrote: > > Some information that used to come through b-a is now > being transferred to other media and I think this is a pity because not all > birders use some of those other feeds and the info fails to reach as > comprehensive a list of birders as it used to. It has become much more time > consuming to flick through facebook, twitter, etc, as well as b-a. I’m not that fussed that some material is being submitted elsewhere. My concern is that it’s being submitted in so many other places that it’s difficult to keep up with it. As well, postings are often duplicated in several Facebook groups, so the responses are also scattered. > I guess > one reason for the change is that the other feeds carry pictures easily > whereas b-a is limited to mostly just text and by the no attachment rule > imposed some years ago. Birding-aus does allow jpg files to be posted, as of early 2015. The total message size is limited to about 200KB, but moderators can let through bigger ones at their discretion. Peter Shute —————————— Message: 16 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:28:18 +1100 From: John Leonard To: Jenny Spry Cc: birding-aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Just to qualify, by ‘robust response’ I meant a reply that disagreed with me without being very roundabout, certainly nothing that has made me angry or made me think less of the poster. What you report is obviously in a different league. John Leonard > On 5 Jan 2016, at 11:43 am, Jenny Spry wrote: > > Hi John and B-A, > > In the context of this discussion I think the phrase “robust responses” could have something to do with the problem. Maybe it is all in the interpretation, and how the receiver feels about getting “robust responses”. Oh, and please don’t read any of the following as a general comment on the 99% of wonderful and very interesting B-A contributors, the people currently in this thread – this is for the 1% who do act as trolls, and so far they have not joined in. > > If I am sent a “robust response” in public I am unlikely to make another post so as to avoid a second such response. When it is sent to me in private I feel especially threatened; I had one case where I replied to the sender requesting that he never contact me again and his reply was that that was not possible because he sent so many emails he would never be able to remember who had asked him not to send emails; and that was when I dropped out of B-A. Sigh. > > In general it is interesting to me that “sledging” and “robust communication” are now seen as being acceptable forms of communication. And I do think that there is a gender difference (not “sexist”) in how communications are sent and received. Male to male “sledging” and “robust communication” seems, to me anyway, to be a form of verbal jousting, a challenge to be met and engaged with. When it is male to female, for me anyway, it is an attack. When it is female to male it seems, to me anyway that, by the “trolls”, the woman will be branded as a “F***king Witch”. > > Maybe you are right, maybe trolls do only attack women, or perhaps when the trolls attack men it is read as just “robust communication” or “sledging”. Who knows. So much in communication styles have changed and possibly (probably) over the decades I have not changed with them. > > I will try putting up a few trip reports again but should I get a “sledging” or “robust communication” in private I will post the offending email on B-A and drop out again. > > I am going to drop out of the thread now before I attract a troll (smile). > > cheers > > Jenny > > > >> On 5 January 2016 at 10:44, John Leonard wrote: >> Hi Jenny >> >> I am astonished and saddened to hear of your BA experiences. >> >> I have been a reader and contributor to BA for 20 years, and in that time have made my views known on a number of topics, but during all that time I have not received a single email of an abusive nature. (There have been a few robust responses to my contributions, but only sent to the group as a whole). >> >> Is it that trolls only target women? >> >> Anyway, I’m sorry we do not now have your contributions because of his harassment. >> >> >> John Leonard >> > > —————————— Message: 17 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 03:47:49 +0000 From: Kim Sterelny To: Birding Aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”Windows-1252″ Hi Folks I. I am not a facebook user and I find this list immensely helpful and informative. Whenever I have need advise I have got it, and its been informed and detailed. I am very grateful to Russell and any others who have kept it in being. 2. Obviously, there have been the odd thread (perhaps even this one) that have gone on beyond their best-before date. But the subject line usually gives those away, and one can just delete them. 3. Equally obviously, there are a few “trigger issues” (bird banding + a couple of others) which arose passions and hence traffic with an unfavourable signal to noise ratio. I am astounded that (eg) posting trip reports has generating flaming responses, and am very sorry to learn that. Nothing remotely like that has even happened to me (even when I defended my cat ownership ? a potential trigger issue). Some disagreement sure, but nothing at all lacking in respect. So armed with my trusty delete button, I say “long live birding-aus”, and thanks for the advice, expertise and good will I have experienced (and the blogs with the fantastic photos: keep posting those links), and I’ll just edit into electronic oblivion anything else. Kim —————————— Message: 18 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 14:54:47 +1100 From: Carl Clifford To: John Leonard Cc: Jenny Spry , birding-aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi John, No, the trolls on BA don’t just tackle women. I have had a few scraps with one or two. They don’t worry me at all, I have even enjoyed some of the bouts I have had with the more intelligent amongst them. Perhaps the main cause of the “decline” of BA, ls the sheer number of australian birding sites on FB. Every person and their pelican can set up a FB page, whereas, setting and maintaining a mailing list/news group takes a lot of effort and time. Carl Clifford > On 5 Jan 2016, at 10:44 AM, John Leonard wrote: > > Hi Jenny > > I am astonished and saddened to hear of your BA experiences. > > I have been a reader and contributor to BA for 20 years, and in that time have made my views known on a number of topics, but during all that time I have not received a single email of an abusive nature. (There have been a few robust responses to my contributions, but only sent to the group as a whole). > > Is it that trolls only target women? > > Anyway, I’m sorry we do not now have your contributions because of his harassment. > > > John Leonard > >> On 5 Jan 2016, at 10:07 am, Jenny Spry wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I agree totally that Facebook is useless for archive searching and much >> good information is going to be lost. Birding-Aus has been an invaluable >> resource for me over the years and I hope I have sometimes provided help to >> others. And yes, it is sad to see the demise of the road trip reports. >> >> Having said all that I don’t submit to Birding Aus any more because of all >> the “trolls” that used to contact me complaining that: >> I had spelt a word wrong >> That I actually didn’t know what I was talking about >> That going on a twitch was a waste of the worlds limited resources >> That keeping a year list/life list was not in the spirit of birding >> Etc etc etc >> Sadly the above comments were usually couched in words meant to demean or >> cause discomfort. >> >> So, on Fb I can screen out people who make these types of comment or make >> tasteless attempts at humour and my enjoyment of communicating with fellow >> birders has increased because I no longer fear I am going to be attacked. >> >> If Birding-Aus had a strong commitment to banning abusive mail, and had a >> place I could forward abusive mail that had been sent to me privately that >> would see the sender banned, I would love to come back. I could even submit >> a report of my latest 2 day 1600 km road dash to see the Paradise Shelduck >> that would have included the contact details for accommodation at Culburra >> and where the best food in town was. >> >> cheers >> >> Jenny >> http://jenniferspryausbirding.blogspot.com.au/ >> >> Birding-Aus mailing list >> Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org >> To change settings or unsubscribe visit: >> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org >> > > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > —————————— Message: 19 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 14:25:41 +1100 From: Penny Brockman To: birding-aus@birding-aus.org Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed I am sorry to read emails like that from Jenny. However, whatever one writes or says, there is always a miserable pedant who has to put you right (and I can be quite pedantic myself), or tell you you are up the wrong tree. Just bin them; life’s too short to spend time getting upset by these misery-mees. Myself I haven’t posted much to BA for a long time – too busy, too preoccupied, enjoying life too much, and I can’t remember if I posted somethng on my recent week spent at Mornington in the Kimberleys, surveying at waterholes for finches, pigeons, parrots and quail. A great week it was too with super people there, all highly committed and doing good work. Very impressive all round. And lots of fabulous views of Purple-crowned Fairy-wrens, Buff-sided Robins and a mixed bag of finches, including Gouldians. This is the sort of volunteering it is worthwhile for retirees to do. The country is beautiful, and the Broome Bird Observatory is a great place to stay before and after visiting Mornington. And you can camp at the gorges along the way. We were there in mid September so most of the tourists had gone as I was told the Gibb River Road is now like Sydney’s Rocks at weekends. Not conducive for good birding. So, please everyone continue your good work for BA – particularly those who make it function smoothly. That’s another great volunteer activity. I’ve learnt a lot via BA in my earlier days birding in Australia – it is a particularly useful and reliable source of information when planning trips both in Australia and overseas. Thanks to everyone who has in the past contributed and will continue to do so. Penny, Gloucester NSW > Hi all, > > I agree totally that Facebook is useless for archive searching and much > good information is going to be lost. Birding-Aus has been an invaluable > resource for me over the years and I hope I have sometimes provided help to > others. And yes, it is sad to see the demise of the road trip reports. > > Having said all that I don’t submit to Birding Aus any more because of all > the “trolls” that used to contact me complaining that: > I had spelt a word wrong > That I actually didn’t know what I was talking about > That going on a twitch was a waste of the worlds limited resources > That keeping a year list/life list was not in the spirit of birding > Etc etc etc > Sadly the above comments were usually couched in words meant to demean or > cause discomfort. > > So, on Fb I can screen out people who make these types of comment or make > tasteless attempts at humour and my enjoyment of communicating with fellow > birders has increased because I no longer fear I am going to be attacked. > > If Birding-Aus had a strong commitment to banning abusive mail, and had a > place I could forward abusive mail that had been sent to me privately that > would see the sender banned, I would love to come back. I could even submit > a report of my latest 2 day 1600 km road dash to see the Paradise Shelduck > that would have included the contact details for accommodation at Culburra > and where the best food in town was. > > cheers > > Jenny > http://jenniferspryausbirding.blogspot.com.au/ > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > > —————————— Message: 20 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 15:27:25 +1100 From: Carl Clifford To: Bill Stent Cc: Lawrie Conole , “birding-aus@birding-aus.org” Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bill, The current number of BA Facebook members is around 570. Carl Clifford > On 5 Jan 2016, at 12:55 PM, Bill Stent wrote: > > As of right now, there are 1,160 members of the email subscription list, Lawrie. > > Obviously there’s a range of activity levels there. > > I’m not sure of the membership of the various Facebook groups, but I > suspect they have a larger membership. > > Bill > > >> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 12:48 PM, Lawrie Conole wrote: >> I’ve been gone from BA for ages; mostly to do with too much email traffic >> and not enough bird/ing! When I checked the BA archive, there it was – very >> early posts on BA in 1995 from me, pontificating about various bird-related >> matters. It seems like a lifetime ago … but a mere 21 years. >> >> If BA is indeed in decline, I’m sad to hear that. I’m firmly of the belief >> that (i) folks place too much faith in Facebook being the vehicle of choice >> for any useful *long-term* purpose, and (ii) that in the post-Facebook era >> many will regret exactly the yawning gap in useful accessible information >> that several other writers here have alluded to. >> >> Back in the 1990s I used BA as the vehicle for a survey of field guide >> users and their preferences. I imagine Facebook or Twitter would be just as >> useful as an email list for that kind of research. If it comes to >> searchable associations between birders, birds and places going back >> decades though, I don’t see the utility or suitability of FB so much. >> >> I use Facebook a bit for matters of ephemeral interest and amusement – I >> tend to use Twitter much more for staying in touch with far flung >> ecologists, birders, ecological journal papers, etc. Maybe it’s time to get >> back on BA for a while. Out of interest, how many subscribers are there now? >> >> cheers >> >> Lawrie >> >> Birding-Aus mailing list >> Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org >> To change settings or unsubscribe visit: >> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org >> > > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > —————————— Message: 21 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 14:58:08 +1000 From: david taylor To: birding-aus Subject: [Birding-Aus] Swarovski Spotting scope and eyepieces for Sale Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Many thanks to all those who have enquired about the scope for sale – it has been sold Im afraid. With kind regards David Taylor On 4 Jan 2016, at 11:24 pm, david taylor wrote: > > For Sale > > > Swarovski Spotting Scope and eyepieces > > > I have the following for sale – all in excellent condition with very minimal use ( has sat untouched for ages) – all about 10 years old. > > > > ATS 65 High Definition Swarovski Scope ( just needs a top mount cover cup otherwise perfect) – cleaned and serviced by Swarovski about 18 months ago and never used since > 25 – 50 zoom Swarovski eyepiece > 30 times fixed Swarovski Eyepiece – almost never used > Original boxes for all. > > > > > Retail brand new it cost over $3000.00 AUS > > > Selling (as a complete package only) for $1400.00 > > > Can send photos > > > Contact offline for enquiries. > > > regards > > > > > David Taylor > Brisbane > > > > > > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > David and Marg Taylor Brisbane —————————— Message: 22 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 15:30:22 +1030 From: “Tony Russell” To: “‘Kim Sterelny'” , “‘Birding Aus'” Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”us-ascii” Let’s hope Russ is reading all this good stuff ! —–Original Message—– From: Birding-Aus [mailto:birding-aus-bounces@birding-aus.org] On Behalf Of Kim Sterelny Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 2:18 PM To: Birding Aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Hi Folks I. I am not a facebook user and I find this list immensely helpful and informative. Whenever I have need advise I have got it, and its been informed and detailed. I am very grateful to Russell and any others who have kept it in being. 2. Obviously, there have been the odd thread (perhaps even this one) that have gone on beyond their best-before date. But the subject line usually gives those away, and one can just delete them. 3. Equally obviously, there are a few “trigger issues” (bird banding + a couple of others) which arose passions and hence traffic with an unfavourable signal to noise ratio. I am astounded that (eg) posting trip reports has generating flaming responses, and am very sorry to learn that. Nothing remotely like that has even happened to me (even when I defended my cat ownership – a potential trigger issue). Some disagreement sure, but nothing at all lacking in respect. So armed with my trusty delete button, I say “long live birding-aus”, and thanks for the advice, expertise and good will I have experienced (and the blogs with the fantastic photos: keep posting those links), and I’ll just edit into electronic oblivion anything else. Kim Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org —————————— Message: 23 Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 20:49:54 -0800 From: grant quist To: “birding-aus@birding-aus.org” Subject: [Birding-Aus] Optics Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi all, Can anyone tell me what Bintel or Adelaide optical are like to deal with. I am looking to get a spotting scope and they have come up as supliers for what I am looking for. I dont live anywhere near them to go in. Thanks Grant Sent from Yahoo7 Mail on Android —————————— Message: 24 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 05:59:57 +0000 From: Kim Sterelny To: grant quist Cc: “birding-aus@birding-aus.org” Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Optics Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”us-ascii” I had excellent experience with Bintel when I bought binoculars there. But I did physically visit and try out the equipment Kim Kim Sterelny Philosophy Program RSSS, ANU e-mail Kim.Sterelny@anu.edu.au, Kim.Sterelny@vuw.ac.nz ANU Contact Information Philosophy Program Research School of the Social Sciences Australian National University 0200 Canberra, ACT, Australia phone 61- (0)2 6125-2886; messages: Philosophy Program 61-(0)2 -6125 2341, fax 61-(0)2 – 6125 3294 On 05/01/2016, at 3:49 PM, grant quist wrote: Hi all, Can anyone tell me what Bintel or Adelaide optical are like to deal with. I am looking to get a spotting scope and they have come up as supliers for what I am looking for. I dont live anywhere near them to go in. Thanks Grant Sent from Yahoo7 Mail on Android Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org —————————— Message: 25 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 17:15:20 +1100 From: “Philip Veerman” To: “‘birding-aus'” Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”us-ascii” I am confused about this topic. What is the decline that people are writing about? Has someone explained that. Does this mean that membership numbers are reducing? I can’t imagine how Facebook can take its place. I hate Facebook. It is constantly telling me I have friends that I have no knowledge of…… I think BA is very useful. As for people correcting mistakes, well that is important in some cases, as if not corrected they get perpetuated. And communication is important. Philip —————————— Message: 26 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 17:56:03 +1100 From: Peter Shute To: Philip Veerman Cc: birding-aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”us-ascii” Membership of the birding-aus mailing list doesn’t seem to be declining, Philip – still growing, I think. What’s changed is the number of postings. Jenny mentioned the trip reports, but what I’ve noticed is the vagrant alerts. A vagrant that would once have generated dozens of postings the same day it was reported, is sometimes never even mentioned here now, although these reports seem to be returning to some extent. Requests for help with identification have moved to Facebook in a big way, probably because of the ease of posting photos. As for correcting mistakes, I think all that’s lacking at times is diplomacy. I should know, I’ve been guilty of it enough times. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad > On 5 Jan 2016, at 5:27 PM, Philip Veerman wrote: > > I am confused about this topic. What is the decline that people are writing > about? Has someone explained that. Does this mean that membership numbers > are reducing? I can’t imagine how Facebook can take its place. I hate > Facebook. It is constantly telling me I have friends that I have no > knowledge of…… I think BA is very useful. As for people correcting > mistakes, well that is important in some cases, as if not corrected they get > perpetuated. And communication is important. > > Philip > > > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > —————————— Message: 27 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 16:50:17 +1100 From: A Smith To: Birding Aus Cc: Kim Sterelny , Tony Russell Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Like Kim, I am not a Facebook user. So for those of us that don?t use that form of social media, what is being posted to Facebook (and not B-A) that I am missing? Regards Alastair On 5 Jan 2016, at 16:00, Tony Russell wrote: Let’s hope Russ is reading all this good stuff ! —–Original Message—– From: Birding-Aus [mailto:birding-aus-bounces@birding-aus.org] On Behalf Of Kim Sterelny Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 2:18 PM To: Birding Aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Hi Folks I. I am not a facebook user and I find this list immensely helpful and informative. Whenever I have need advise I have got it, and its been informed and detailed. I am very grateful to Russell and any others who have kept it in being. 2. Obviously, there have been the odd thread (perhaps even this one) that have gone on beyond their best-before date. But the subject line usually gives those away, and one can just delete them. 3. Equally obviously, there are a few “trigger issues” (bird banding + a couple of others) which arose passions and hence traffic with an unfavourable signal to noise ratio. I am astounded that (eg) posting trip reports has generating flaming responses, and am very sorry to learn that. Nothing remotely like that has even happened to me (even when I defended my cat ownership – a potential trigger issue). Some disagreement sure, but nothing at all lacking in respect. So armed with my trusty delete button, I say “long live birding-aus”, and thanks for the advice, expertise and good will I have experienced (and the blogs with the fantastic photos: keep posting those links), and I’ll just edit into electronic oblivion anything else. Kim Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org —————————— Message: 28 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 16:48:13 +1100 From: Martin Butterfield To: grant quist Cc: “birding-aus@birding-aus.org” Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Optics Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 In my experience (and what others have told me) Bintel in Sydney are excellent. I am likely to be giving them custom for a scope in the near future, and couldn’t really imagine going elsewhere. I’ve never dealt with the Melbourne store but couldn’t see they would be any different. Martin Martin Butterfield http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/ On 5 January 2016 at 15:49, grant quist wrote: > Hi all, > > Can anyone tell me what Bintel or Adelaide optical are like to deal with. > I am looking to get a spotting scope and they have come up as supliers for > what I am looking for. I dont live anywhere near them to go in. > > Thanks > > Grant > > Sent from Yahoo7 Mail on Android > > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > > —————————— Message: 29 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 17:37:58 +1100 From: Peter Shute To: Carl Clifford Cc: Bill Stent , “birding-aus@birding-aus.org” Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”us-ascii” 578, if you don’t mind. It seems to be growing by about one per day. If anyone’s interested in joining that group, search for “birding-aus” in Facebook, and submit a join request. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad > On 5 Jan 2016, at 4:41 PM, Carl Clifford wrote: > > Bill, > > The current number of BA Facebook members is around 570. > > Carl Clifford > >> On 5 Jan 2016, at 12:55 PM, Bill Stent wrote: >> >> As of right now, there are 1,160 members of the email subscription list, Lawrie. >> >> Obviously there’s a range of activity levels there. >> >> I’m not sure of the membership of the various Facebook groups, but I >> suspect they have a larger membership. >> >> Bill >> >> >>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 12:48 PM, Lawrie Conole wrote: >>> I’ve been gone from BA for ages; mostly to do with too much email traffic >>> and not enough bird/ing! When I checked the BA archive, there it was – very >>> early posts on BA in 1995 from me, pontificating about various bird-related >>> matters. It seems like a lifetime ago … but a mere 21 years. >>> >>> If BA is indeed in decline, I’m sad to hear that. I’m firmly of the belief >>> that (i) folks place too much faith in Facebook being the vehicle of choice >>> for any useful *long-term* purpose, and (ii) that in the post-Facebook era >>> many will regret exactly the yawning gap in useful accessible information >>> that several other writers here have alluded to. >>> >>> Back in the 1990s I used BA as the vehicle for a survey of field guide >>> users and their preferences. I imagine Facebook or Twitter would be just as >>> useful as an email list for that kind of research. If it comes to >>> searchable associations between birders, birds and places going back >>> decades though, I don’t see the utility or suitability of FB so much. >>> >>> I use Facebook a bit for matters of ephemeral interest and amusement – I >>> tend to use Twitter much more for staying in touch with far flung >>> ecologists, birders, ecological journal papers, etc. Maybe it’s time to get >>> back on BA for a while. Out of interest, how many subscribers are there now? >>> >>> cheers >>> >>> Lawrie >>> >>> Birding-Aus mailing list >>> Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org >>> To change settings or unsubscribe visit: >>> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org >>> >> >> >> Birding-Aus mailing list >> Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org >> To change settings or unsubscribe visit: >> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org >> > > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > —————————— Message: 30 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 18:12:29 +1100 From: Steve Clark To: A Smith Cc: Birding-Aus Subject: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 When the Long-billed Dowitcher appeared late 2014 I waited for info on birding-aus. Virtually nothing appeared. I enquired and found it was all on the Facebook Aust twitchers group. The young folk don’t do email! Steve Clark On Tuesday, 5 January 2016, A Smith wrote: > Like Kim, I am not a Facebook user. So for those of us that don?t use that > form of social media, what is being posted to Facebook (and not B-A) that I > am missing? > Regards > Alastair > > > On 5 Jan 2016, at 16:00, Tony Russell wrote: > > Let’s hope Russ is reading all this good stuff ! > > —–Original Message—– > From: Birding-Aus [mailto:birding-aus-bounces@birding-aus.org] On Behalf > Of > Kim Sterelny > Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 2:18 PM > To: Birding Aus > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA > > Hi Folks > > I. I am not a facebook user and I find this list immensely helpful and > informative. Whenever I have need advise I have got it, and its been > informed and detailed. I am very grateful to Russell and any others who > have kept it in being. > > 2. Obviously, there have been the odd thread (perhaps even this one) that > have gone on beyond their best-before date. But the subject line usually > gives those away, and one can just delete them. > > 3. Equally obviously, there are a few “trigger issues” (bird banding + a > couple of others) which arose passions and hence traffic with an > unfavourable signal to noise ratio. I am astounded that (eg) posting trip > reports has generating flaming responses, and am very sorry to learn that. > Nothing remotely like that has even happened to me (even when I defended my > cat ownership – a potential trigger issue). Some disagreement sure, but > nothing at all lacking in respect. > > So armed with my trusty delete button, I say “long live birding-aus”, and > thanks for the advice, expertise and good will I have experienced (and the > blogs with the fantastic photos: keep posting those links), and I’ll just > edit into electronic oblivion anything else. > > Kim > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > > > > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > > > > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > > —————————— Message: 31 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 18:06:37 +1100 From: Carl Clifford To: Martin Butterfield Cc: grant quist , “birding-aus@birding-aus.org” Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Optics Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes, I have used Bintel in Sydney, and found them good operators. Carl Clifford > On 5 Jan 2016, at 4:48 PM, Martin Butterfield wrote: > > In my experience (and what others have told me) Bintel in Sydney are > excellent. I am likely to be giving them custom for a scope in the near > future, and couldn’t really imagine going elsewhere. > > I’ve never dealt with the Melbourne store but couldn’t see they would be > any different. > > Martin > > Martin Butterfield > http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/ > >> On 5 January 2016 at 15:49, grant quist wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Can anyone tell me what Bintel or Adelaide optical are like to deal with. >> I am looking to get a spotting scope and they have come up as supliers for >> what I am looking for. I dont live anywhere near them to go in. >> >> Thanks >> >> Grant >> >> Sent from Yahoo7 Mail on Android >> >> >> Birding-Aus mailing list >> Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org >> To change settings or unsubscribe visit: >> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org >> >> > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > —————————— Message: 32 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 18:13:04 +1100 From: Carl Clifford To: birding-aus@birding-aus.org Subject: [Birding-Aus] OBP rat deaths. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sad news. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-05/deaths-of-orange-bellied-parrots-deeply-disturbing-minister-says/7069250 Carl Clifford —————————— Message: 33 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 19:44:15 +1100 From: “R. Bruce Richardson” To: Peter Shute Cc: Tony Russell , Jenny Spry , birding-aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Truly, Facebook is being embraced by an increasingly larger number of birders. It is a wonderful way to make new friends and exchange information. We just returned from Kangaroo Island where most of our local birding info (we got all of our target birds) came from new (and some old) Facebook friends. We also believe in, and use ?books.? Yes, the hard copy, printed things? our trusty, Dolby and Clarke as well Chris Baxter?s book, Birds of Kangaroo Island were by our sides. I will add that eBird is a phenomenal resource! The ?Explore Data? section is wonderful! It must be seen and used to be believed. The ?Explore A Region? is amazing, so much information right at our fingertips? lists and maps, dates and times… But for eBird to work at its best, people need to post their lists. So, remember to post your lists! Cheers, R. Bruce Richardson On Jan 5, 2016, at 12:59 PM, Peter Shute wrote: > > > Sent from my iPad >> On 5 Jan 2016, at 12:28 PM, Tony Russell wrote: >> >> Some information that used to come through b-a is now >> being transferred to other media and I think this is a pity because not all >> birders use some of those other feeds and the info fails to reach as >> comprehensive a list of birders as it used to. It has become much more time >> consuming to flick through facebook, twitter, etc, as well as b-a. > > I’m not that fussed that some material is being submitted elsewhere. My concern is that it’s being submitted in so many other places that it’s difficult to keep up with it. As well, postings are often duplicated in several Facebook groups, so the responses are also scattered. > >> I guess >> one reason for the change is that the other feeds carry pictures easily >> whereas b-a is limited to mostly just text and by the no attachment rule >> imposed some years ago. > > Birding-aus does allow jpg files to be posted, as of early 2015. The total message size is limited to about 200KB, but moderators can let through bigger ones at their discretion. > > Peter Shute > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > —————————— Message: 34 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 09:48:39 +0000 From: Vader Willem Jan Marinus To: birding-aus Subject: [Birding-Aus] The decline of B-A Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”iso-8859-1″ I have been a subscriber to Birding -aus for almost 20 years now, albeit these last years only as an observer rather than a contributor. As I have written already once earlier, many years before, Birding-aus has been my absolute favourite among the several lists to which I have been subscribed. The reason was, and is, the good mix of experts and other birders, the great willingness of many of the experts to answer to all queries in detail and positively (and not condescendingly), and the low level of irascible mails and hot disputes. (Although the sure way to get a reaction to something one writes also on Birding-aus definitely is to make some mistake in spelling or English; I never got so many reactions as when I innocently-English is not my first language-wrote that I ‘loaded my batteries’, instead of ‘charged’! The decline in numbers of subscribers and the proliferation of other social media outlets seems to be global, and the European and N.American lists have nowadays a very low level of activity. So Birding-aus is still by far my most favourite list. I use the opportunity to wish you all a happy, healthy and harmoniouis, full of birds but low on trolls. Troms? is cold, wintery, and bird poor, and in my garden the Magpie and the Hooded Crow are the only birds of 2016, while my year list stands at 8 species. Wim Vader, Troms?, Norway —————————— Message: 35 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 22:18:58 +1100 From: Rohan Clarke To: birding-aus@birding-aus.org Subject: [Birding-Aus] {Disarmed} The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Hi All, I shifted to FB about 12 months ago when the Long-billed Dowitcher turned up. I did so with the intent of continuing to post to birding-aus (and keep that part of the community up to date as well) but there is so much material on FB that I gave up cross posting fairly quickly as I couldn’t keep up. I will continue to routinely post pelagic trip reports to birding-aus (and facebook) but the reality is rare bird reports are now largely on FB. As for what Alistair is missing, on the Australian Twitchers FB page (a closed group so you need to join FB then send a request to join AT before you can ‘see’ anything) since the start of the 2016 (5 days) there have been 10 individual posts on the Hudsonian Godwit and Paradise Shelduck currently at Culburra Lake, NSW. Nested within those posts are many photographs and perhaps 70 comments including detailed real time directions, screen grabs of maps, photos of the bird (again some almost in real time as smart phone grabs off the back of the camera), updates on the weather at the site, contact details for accommodation etc etc. There have also been posts on a Glossy Swiftlet reported in north QLD, Common Moorhen and Common Kingfisher on Cocos, Watercock, also on Cocos and field ID of two species of stint. Activity is fairly intense at the moment because there is a lot about but it does tend to get much quieter in winter! Cheers, Rohan On Tuesday, 5 January 2016, A Smith < berigora@gmail.com > wrote: >/ Like Kim, I am not a Facebook user. So for those of us that don?t use that/ >/form of social media, what is being posted to Facebook (and not B-A) that I/ >/am missing?/ >/Regards/ >/Alastair/ — Rohan Clarke www.wildlifeimages.com.au Latest updates http://www.pbase.com/wildlifeimages/root&view=recent —————————— Message: 36 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 21:41:21 +1100 From: Russell Woodford To: Tony Russell Cc: Kim Sterelny , Birding Aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am! Thanks for all the positive comments. I really thought that when I set up BA Facebook group that it would mean the end of the mailing list. But news of our demise has been greatly exaggerated! Great to see that this forum still has currency for many people – and I intend to keep it going while ever that is the case. Work has kept me away from just about everything to do with birding for some months but it’s always good to catch up on discussions – and I hope to be birdier in 2061 I must thank Bill and Peter for carrying almost all the workload of birding-aus over the last few years, and particularly in 2015. Out of the team of moderators, they are really the ones to whom we owe the continuing existence of birding-aus. So a belated happy New Year to everyone. I hope this will be a good year for you all in every aspect. Cheers Russell Russell Woodford Birding-Aus Founder > On 5 Jan 2016, at 4:00 PM, Tony Russell wrote: > > Let’s hope Russ is reading all this good stuff ! > > —–Original Message—– > From: Birding-Aus [mailto:birding-aus-bounces@birding-aus.org] On Behalf Of > Kim Sterelny > Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 2:18 PM > To: Birding Aus > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The Decline of BA > > Hi Folks > > I. I am not a facebook user and I find this list immensely helpful and > informative. Whenever I have need advise I have got it, and its been > informed and detailed. I am very grateful to Russell and any others who > have kept it in being. > > 2. Obviously, there have been the odd thread (perhaps even this one) that > have gone on beyond their best-before date. But the subject line usually > gives those away, and one can just delete them. > > 3. Equally obviously, there are a few “trigger issues” (bird banding + a > couple of others) which arose passions and hence traffic with an > unfavourable signal to noise ratio. I am astounded that (eg) posting trip > reports has generating flaming responses, and am very sorry to learn that. > Nothing remotely like that has even happened to me (even when I defended my > cat ownership – a potential trigger issue). Some disagreement sure, but > nothing at all lacking in respect. > > So armed with my trusty delete button, I say “long live birding-aus”, and > thanks for the advice, expertise and good will I have experienced (and the > blogs with the fantastic photos: keep posting those links), and I’ll just > edit into electronic oblivion anything else. > > Kim > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > > > > > Birding-Aus mailing list > Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > —————————— Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org —————————— End of Birding-Aus Digest, Vol 27, Issue 8 ******************************************