There has been some discussion about Princess Parrots at Jupiter Well. I was part of the group that searched unsuccessfully last month (but I had seen them at JW in January this year.) At the moment I am living at Mt Liebig which is halfway to JW from Alice Springs so it is about half a day’s drive from home to JW. If anybody is planning to go there I would be happy to provide updated info on road conditions eg the road was closed last Tuesday because of heavy rains but we have had great weather since so you can get through at the moment. If anyone does come through and plans to refuel at Mt Liebig please feel free to contact me via the Health Clinic for the latest info. In fact I am keen to go back and try again seeing I am living so close so if anyone does have info I would be grateful if you felt free to pass it on to me.
Don Hadden
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Good idea, but forget it. Uluru is a sacred site that we’re allowed to access, and what do people do? They walk beyond the cairn, which is as far as they’re supposed to go, right down to the other end where ceremonial poles can be seen. When I was there I could see someone shaking one. I read in the paper that the owners are upset by the number of people who defecate up there. And this is just what happens in a very public place where access is fairly controlled.
Peter Shute
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And if you see someone carrying a 600 mm and an 800 mm, keep him sight at all times.
Carl Clifford
Hi all,
Having lived in Thailand for 6 years now (but at the same time looking forward to returning home permanently to Australia in January) I can concur that nothing beats time, patience and perspiration when it comes to the more difficult-to-see species. Mealworms would have to be in the top ten tricks to see and photograph fantastic birds! The Thai birders and wildlife photographers use them all the time at the key mountain locations in northern Thailand – Doi Inthanon, Doi Ang Khang, Doi Lang. By sheer coincidence in meeting up and piggy-backing on their mealworm offerings, they have often been my best “guides”
Cheers,
P.
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Carl Clifford wrote: Colin,
I heartily agree. You do not have to pay big money to see birds. I did not pay $150 to see a Gurney’s Pitta, I only paid about 4-5 litres of perspiration and was greatly rewarded for it. I have only been one guided tour, some USD 4,500 and, with hindsight, I could have done and seen more by myself, with a bit of research and using local transport.
A guide is no guarantee that you will see a bird. It is up to the birds, not the guide, as to whether you will see them. Unless the guide is enterprising, such as the one who charges $150 to see a GP. I don’t know how the price of meal worms in Thailand, but I imagine $150 would buy a lot and a GP wouldn’t eat too many in a day. That would be a pretty good margin, even taking out the cost of the kid hired to place the meal worms in a prominent place, not long before the guide and the day’s punters turn up.
I wonder how much Princess Parrot chicks go for? I think see a business opportunity here.
Cheers,
Carl Clifford
Hi
I’m with Tony and Chris on this one. I DO agree that the local indigenous population showing some interest as bird guides is a great step forward – who better to offer this service? But $450? Get real! That’s sheer profiteering and won’t win any long term support from the birding community – I hope. In fact its a real pity that some people are actually willing to pay that kind of money – it simply encourages this sort of behaviour and there will be no turning back. Lets put it into some sort of reality – to see Gurney’s Pitta in Thailand one pays approx $150US – for a bird that is down to less than 30 pairs in that country (I may have the numbers wrong, but it is certainly much ‘rarer’ than a PP) and is notoriously hard to see anyway. There is no comparison. It is shameful that anyone, foreign visitor or ‘local’ is being ripped off at this price for the pleasure of birding.
I would ask all of you considering going, to re-consider and reflect on the impact this may possibly have on any guiding or birding anywhere in Australia in the future – especially by the indigenous population. By all means encourage their involvement, but at a realistic price.
Colin
Brisbane.
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 20:04 +1030, “Tony Russel” wrote: I can’t agree Tim. It’s costly enough to even get there and back without being slugged for entry once you get there – and who needs a guide anyway ? Far better to find them for yourself.
Tony.
Hi all,
Having lived in Thailand for 6 years now (but at the same time looking forward to returning home permanently to Australia in January) I can concur that nothing beats time, patience and perspiration when it comes to the more difficult-to-see species. Mealworms would have to be in the top ten tricks to see and photograph fantastic birds! The Thai birders and wildlife photographers use them all the time at the key mountain locations in northern Thailand – Doi Inthanon, Doi Ang Khang, Doi Lang. By sheer coincidence in meeting up and piggy-backing on their mealworm offerings, they have often been my best “guides”
Cheers,
P.
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Colin,
I heartily agree. You do not have to pay big money to see birds. I did not pay $150 to see a Gurney’s Pitta, I only paid about 4-5 litres of perspiration and was greatly rewarded for it. I have only been one guided tour, some USD 4,500 and, with hindsight, I could have done and seen more by myself, with a bit of research and using local transport.
A guide is no guarantee that you will see a bird. It is up to the birds, not the guide, as to whether you will see them. Unless the guide is enterprising, such as the one who charges $150 to see a GP. I don’t know how the price of meal worms in Thailand, but I imagine $150 would buy a lot and a GP wouldn’t eat too many in a day. That would be a pretty good margin, even taking out the cost of the kid hired to place the meal worms in a prominent place, not long before the guide and the day’s punters turn up.
I wonder how much Princess Parrot chicks go for? I think see a business opportunity here.
Cheers,
Carl Clifford
Hi
I’m with Tony and Chris on this one. I DO agree that the local indigenous population showing some interest as bird guides is a great step forward – who better to offer this service? But $450? Get real! That’s sheer profiteering and won’t win any long term support from the birding community – I hope. In fact its a real pity that some people are actually willing to pay that kind of money – it simply encourages this sort of behaviour and there will be no turning back. Lets put it into some sort of reality – to see Gurney’s Pitta in Thailand one pays approx $150US – for a bird that is down to less than 30 pairs in that country (I may have the numbers wrong, but it is certainly much ‘rarer’ than a PP) and is notoriously hard to see anyway. There is no comparison. It is shameful that anyone, foreign visitor or ‘local’ is being ripped off at this price for the pleasure of birding.
I would ask all of you considering going, to re-consider and reflect on the impact this may possibly have on any guiding or birding anywhere in Australia in the future – especially by the indigenous population. By all means encourage their involvement, but at a realistic price.
Colin
Brisbane.
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Capitalism ? Hm ! I think it’s that the people involved, whether it’s the CLC or the landowners, are used to getting large amounts from govt departments, universities, or large companies by way of grants for development, training, etc., and they are applying that thinking to allowing birders on their land. As Laurie has said, if they lowered the price they may well get more overall revenue from larger numbers of visitors, but I doubt they’ll get too many at $450. But then maybe that is what they want, just a few at a high price. However, not from this boyo.
Tony.
__________________________ Maybe they don’t want to have more than a dozen people come on to the land. Maybe maximum profit isn’t the driving force.
cheers
storm
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Ultimately the price is the price. You either pay for it or not – as Chris said, a personal thing.
There’s always another season when you can make the run to Jupiter Well – by my calculations the cost of driving in there from Alice Springs, including fuel and food would have to be $250 or more. So you’re certainly paying for the convenience of seeing the birds close to the Mereenie Loop Road – however I guess that this makes the birds more accessible to more people.
I wouldn’t baulk at paying $450 – the only tragedy as far as Ruth and I are concerned is that we can’t make another trip to Central Australia until after the new year. Maybe there’ll be more trips arranged for the first week of January?
Paul Dodd Docklands, Victoria
The locals are charging a premium price. I don’t know whether it is an optimal price in that it may not maximise returns if it keeps the number of clients down too much. For example, thirty clients @ $250 generates more revenue than a dozen clients @ $450 ….
Regards, Laurie.
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But people are paying it, for the time being anyway. I think it’s too expensive too, but that’s capitalism for you. Given that the birds won’t hang around forever, they need to make hay while the sun shines, as they say.
Peter Shute
Hi Tim and Tony,
I think what someone would willingly pay for something like this is a very personal thing. If Tony can’t swing $450 to see Princess Parrots, I don’t think you can blame him. Personally, even if I could afford it, I wouldn’t pay $450 for less than a day’s guiding for any bird anywhere in the world. If I were retired and well off maybe it would be a different story, who knows? I think the concept of the permit and indigenous guiding is a great one, I just don’t think they have the balance right yet, as I would place their price well above standard guiding rates.
Regards, Chris
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I think you’re being a little harsh Tony.
I think the cost is reasonable for a chance to see such an iconic and hard to find species. It was not that long ago that Mike Carter resorted to drinking radiator water when his vehicle expired on the Canning Stock Route as he went in search of Princess Parrot. There are many species of birds that are best seen with the local assistance of a guide / bird guide, with this cost not dissimilar from the costs charged by birding tours.
The money also provides valuable financial assistance to the traditional land owners. Many conservation / birding organisations recognize the importance of establishing positive relationships with local and indigenous people. Creating sustainable livelihoods through birdwatching tourism for indigenous people can have a real impact both on the lives of the traditional land owners but also bird conservation. A recent example of this is the Kakadu Birding Project (see http://www.birdsaustralia.com.au/birds/kakadu-birding-project.html). The development of Import Bird Area (IBA) works along similar principles; recognizing that working with local people and traditional land owners has a positive impact of local conservation.
Cheers,
Tim Dolby
________________________________________ href=”mailto:birding-aus-bounces@vicnet.net.au”>birding-aus-bounces@vicnet.net.au [birding-aus-bounces@vicnet.net.au] on behalf of Tony Russell [pratincole@esc.net.au] Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 12:18 PM
Thank you John for this report and congrats on finding the PPs. However: I too thought about going but baulked at the excessive cost of a permit required to enter the restricted areas. $450 for a piece of paper which probably took a clerk about two minutes to make out is not my idea of good value, no matter what tick is at stake. Someone is ripping us off guys.
I’ll wait til the PPs appear on non restricted land – and if they don’t, well so be it, I’ll go without.
Tony
Thank you John for this report and congrats on finding the PPs. However: I too thought about going but baulked at the excessive cost of a permit required to enter the restricted areas. $450 for a piece of paper which probably took a clerk about two minutes to make out is not my idea of good value, no matter what tick is at stake. Someone is ripping us off guys.
I’ll wait til the PPs appear on non restricted land – and if they don’t, well so be it, I’ll go without.
Tony
Funny you should come up with this Greg. A group of us from Adelaide are heading for Neale Junction at the end of September/early November following your sightings last year. One point though, I’ve checked with the WA authorities and found that a transit permit is required to go through the Cosmo Newberry region which both the Grand Central and Ann Beadell highways go through. They are readily available at no charge from the WA Lands Council.
Tony