Hi all,
Well, I did get a reply from a local – Barham – resident about the Ostriches that I saw and it seems they really are a feral self-sustaining population, and have been for many years. Here is the text from an email I got:
“There are about 25 adult ostriches now running loose and free on “Cadell”. They’ve been there for quite a few years and have bred up from just a pair. I live in Barham and as far as I know, they are abandoned from a failed breeding enterprise back in the 90s and certainly now enjoy freedom to roam and breed. I hadn’t seen any chicks this year, but they seem to produce a good clutch or two every year, so this excellent season will no doubt produce extra fecundity.”
So, if anyone wants “Ostrich” for their list it seems this is the place to go, it is certainly easier and cheaper than hiring a light plane to fly out over SA (smile). The Murray full of water is also a spectacular sight and Moama and Barham are good places to stay and see it.
Cheers
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John,
Just for info, I saw a Common Myna at Devonport on 26th Dec 2006, when I was travelling across to Tasmania by ferry. It was reported on Eremaea at the time and is flagged as not being on the Tasmanian list.
Regards,
Bruce
G’day Laurie, I’ve no doubt that’s true, but regardless of how ‘picky’ BARC is, it is still up to the individual birder as to whether or not to add a tick to their own list.
Some years ago, a pair of Common Mynahs was shot (thankfully), nesting at Mersey Bluff in Devonport. By the way, I did not tick them because I did not see them until they were mounted next to the fox in the Tasmanian Museum. Now, one would ‘suspect’ that these birds arrived, “ship-assisted” by the Spirit of Tasmania Ferries – but DID they? Could they have been ticked by us if we’d seen them alive? Subjective call!
We have personally ticked Olive-backed Oriole at Wynyard in Northwest Tassie, even though it, too, would seem an unlikely candidate for unassisted flight across Bass Straight …. but who knows. Though it was a positive ID (sufficient to satisfy ourselves), we did not submit a sighting to BARCa, for two reasons: i) because it would not have fulfilled all their “picky” criteria, and ii) BARC is concerned with assessing sightings of vagrants to Australia, and is not interested in mainland species vagrant to Tasmania.
BUT, we were satisfied with it as a tick for our Tasmanian list.
I suspect many sightings which have been submitted to – but not accepted by – BARC are still ticked on the lists of the particular birders making the submission.
The point of all this? …….
The final contents of an individual birders list is up to the judgement call of the individual birder. There isn’t really anything “wrong” with this, as long as everyone recognises it. And in the end it doesn’t matter, ……unless people are wanting to say that one person’s list is better or worse than another, AT WHICH POINT they they just need to be sure they are following EXACTLY the same ‘rules’.
Still happy to see whatever birds I can! 😉
Cheers, and happy birding, John Tongue Ulverstone, Tas.
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I suspect that BARC are a bit picky about the birds they tick 😉
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Hi Chris, et. al.
I suspect in the end, we all have to make our own decisions about what we will and won’t accept as a “tick”. It’s all very subjective.
Chris write, “….vagrants are treated differently only if they got themselves here.”
Who’s to say if they “got themselves here”? Did the Sydney House Crow get itself here? Did the Burren Junction Grey-headed Lapwing get itself here?
In the end, we each have to make a judgement call for ourselves, that we are happy with ……for ourselves.
Cheers and happy birding, John Tongue Ulverstone, Tas.
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Hi Chris,
Thanks for that. I was a bit surprised by a few posts and was about to send out a similar mail for clarification – but now there is no need!
Nikolas
G’day Stephen,
Either way it would appear the only way to age an Ostrich as you describe requires butchering it. This has merit, especially as it removes yet another potential pest from the wild.
Cheers Jeff.
I would imagine the only way one could age an ostrich would be by examining feather development, bone ossification and body size of juveniles and immatures (like any other bird species), but once they are adults it would be difficult (impossible?) to age them. I’m happy to be corrected on that one.
I understand that farmed ostriches can be aged according to the quality of their meat. Not much help if you’re trying to age wild ostriches from a distance!
Stephen Ambrose Ryde NSW
It’s hard enough close up Peter, not that you can get very close to them usually, although Jenny’s ones were an exception.
Tony
I knew someone would pick me up on this, well done Chris.
As a twitcher, I never wonder how long a species might have been around. If it’s there, alive, and wild, I’ll tick it. Many notorious twitchers would have a very depleted list if they didn’t adopt the same approach, irrespective of a pending BARC acceptance. ( Wouldn’t you guys). Life is too short.
Tony
Sent: Wednesday, 27 October 2010 10:21 AM Cc: Nikolas Haass; birding-aus
Tony,
As I’m sure you know, vagrants are treated differently only if they got themselves here. For a deliberately introduced feral, Australian birders typically use a “10 years breeding in the wild” rule, because it’s easy, however as Nikolas points out that may not always make sense for things like Ostrich and Parrots which have long lifespans. However I think with birds breeding in the wild, 10 years could be enough to produce 3 generations (original birds having chicks which then have chicks etc.) as just because the original adults haven’t necessarily died yet doesn’t mean their grandchildren aren’t already breeding successfully. So as far as I’m concerned, these Ostriches are as viable as the Peafowl or Pheasants on Rottnest Island, or Guineafowl wherever it is people can tick those. If you choose to tick ferals (and why not? They are a part of Australia’s fauna now), then I say go for them!
Regards,
Chris
Looks like the three generation thing is out the window then – bit silly anyway and impossible to apply to vagrant birds.
Tony
Similarly, it’s quite possible that the original birds are producing young every year, only to have them all taken by foxes, etc. Is it possible to estimate the age of an ostrich from a distance?
Peter Shute
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Tony,
As I’m sure you know, vagrants are treated differently only if they got themselves here. For a deliberately introduced feral, Australian birders typically use a “10 years breeding in the wild” rule, because it’s easy, however as Nikolas points out that may not always make sense for things like Ostrich and Parrots which have long lifespans. However I think with birds breeding in the wild, 10 years could be enough to produce 3 generations (original birds having chicks which then have chicks etc.) as just because the original adults haven’t necessarily died yet doesn’t mean their grandchildren aren’t already breeding successfully. So as far as I’m concerned, these Ostriches are as viable as the Peafowl or Pheasants on Rottnest Island, or Guineafowl wherever it is people can tick those. If you choose to tick ferals (and why not? They are a part of Australia’s fauna now), then I say go for them!
Regards, Chris
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Looks like the three generation thing is out the window then – bit silly anyway and impossible to apply to vagrant birds.
Tony
Nah, There were probably 3 generations in the mob of Arabian Shearwaters that were seen, so that would make them a valid tick under the 3 generation rule.
Cheers,
Carl Clifford
I wonder whether everyone will wait for three self-sustaining generations of Arabian Shearwaters in Australian Territory before ticking them??
John Tongue Ulverstone, Tas.
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I wonder whether everyone will wait for three self-sustaining generations of Arabian Shearwaters in Australian Territory before ticking them??
John Tongue Ulverstone, Tas.
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Nick
So those who ticked the House Crow in Sydney are wrong, don’t be so pedantic.
Greg Little
Who is to say that 3 generations haven’t bred over 20 years? Also, considering you don’t know the age of the original stock………………
Yours in all things “green”
Regards
John Harris Manager, Environment and Sustainability Donvale Christian College 155 Tindals Rd Donvale 3111 03 9844 2471 Ext 217 0409 090 955 john.harris@donvale.vic.edu.au
President, Field Naturalists Club of Victoria (FNCV) Past President, Victorian Association for Environmental Education (VAEE)
Aha ! But if you don’t apply the 3 generation rule you can tick them earlier.
Tony
Hi all.
The local was Geoff Leslie who is the Baptist Pastor from Barham NSW. Geoff is a very good local birder and is second only to the legendry Simon Starr for the area.
I was with Geoff about a month ago and we saw the ostriches and some other good local birds – Chestnut crowned babbler (about 20), bush curlew, white backed swallow, friar birds – both western gerygone etc.
Glen C.
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Aha ! But if you don’t apply the 3 generation rule you can tick them earlier.
Tony
Thanks for your comment, Dave!
True, it IS important to RECORD introduced species. I was just making fun of TICKING them, which in my opinion is a big difference. And yes, it is important to record them early enough (e.g. Canada Geese at NSW’s south coast a couple of years ago) to be able to cope with a possibly resulting impact on the environment. But still, the sightings of some Ostriches with chicks (since the 1990s) doesn’t mean that they represent a self-sustaining population.
Cheers,
Nikolas
Whether one counts them or not is a matter of personal preference – however it is important that people record such things (if they are going to record sightings at all) else it becomes hard in later years to track the spread of such species. There seems to be a tendency in some places to only record “natives” and ignore everything else.
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Hi all,
If you want to count introduced species (which in my personal opinion doesn’t really make sense), shouldn’t you at least apply the “three generation rule” (= 3
proven self-sustaining generations)? For long-lived birds like Ostrich, this means approximately 30-48 years of proven self-sustaining population. Thus, the NSW Ostriches need another 10-28 years to become “tickable”.
Cheers,
Nikolas