Night Parrot debate

By Birding-Aus, on October 14th, 2013

Someone asked for the truth in this matter so please read below. I should add that I have known John for about 30 years, have worked with him on many occasions and regard him as a close friend. John finally got the photos of the Night Parrot with the help of a birding friend who has accompanied him on many of the trips (and who also saw the parrot during that time). After the night of photography and some sleep was had, they packed up and headed for home – a 15 hour drive. As soon as John got within mobile range, he phoned me to say “We got it!” He was so excited that he could hardly get the words out. They arrived back in Cairns late that night. Next morning around 9.00 am John arrived up here at my place and we sat at my kitchen table and spent a couple of hours going through about 50 or so of the best photos as well as the video. I was the first to see them. I had already heard much of the sound that John had got on previous visits but we went through some of that again. Over previous years, I spent time with him out at some of the sites where he has been looking for the parrot, including the one where he finally got the photos. I have not been fortunate enough to see the bird myself but know the exact site where he photographed it – in fact the very spinifex bush the bird disappeared under! As far as John altering the photo digitally is concerned, all he did was to take a small spinifex twig off the birds back which was spoiling the photo. I have just spoken to him again and he assures me adamantly that before he sent the photo that is all he did (not that I needed that assurance). The photo (a jpg!) was not for scientific consumption but for PUBLIC consumption! What is the drama over that? Some people seem to have problems differentiating between the two – just read the debate on Bird Forum. It is something which happens a million times a day in the publishing world. There are another hundred plus original Raw files which will be available for publication at a later date with a scientific paper if needed. I really can’t believe some of the comments and doubting from some people which has made its way onto Birding-aus!! John Young is one of the most remarkable and talented field ornithologists Australia has ever seen and yet there are people out there (mostly those who have never met him) who still try to put him down at every opportunity. And as far as the “debate” on the Bird Forum website is concerned, after reading a few of those postings, I quickly hit the delete button – I have better things to do than to waste time reading discussion such as that which at times denigrates Australian birding and birders, with some bordering on defamation. Why don’t these people take some notice of the Aussies? A few noted Australian ornithologists made an attempt to convince them that the sighting and photographs were genuine but that seemed to be ignored but a number of contributors. Finally, a message to the doubters and knockers – for goodness sake, go take a cold shower and give the man a break!! Recognise his ability, what he has achieved and what he is doing. Allow him to make more data available in his own good time. He is already working on the parrot and its welfare (voluntarily with no financial remuneration) with others including some from the scientific community. The object of this is to determine the status of the bird etc etc, trying to locate it in other areas, to determine the best ways to protect the bird, AND ways in which others might see it without endangering the species. You are not helping either the cause (especially when and if funds need to be raised at some time), the future of the Night Parrot or the chance for others to see it! And for those people asking (almost demanding) him to divulge all that he has gained, discovered and learned so far – does one immediately write a paper at first encounter with a species? He has already conducted a public forum at his own expense for the benefit of birders. Just remember this – John derives a living from consultancy etc. in the natural history field (he does not have a highly paid government or other job) and the quest for the Night Parrot has already cost him more than 6 figures of his own money as well as thousands of hours in the field for which he has received very little remuneration to date. Are these people going to contribute to some form of remuneration. Give the man a break! Lloyd Nielsen, Mt Molloy, Nth Qld www.birdingaustralia.com.au =============================== To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request@vicnet.net.au http://birding-aus.org ===============================

andrewt

October 15, 2013 at 9:35 am

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 06:38:59PM +1000, Lloyd Nielsen wrote: Actually it doesn’t. This sort of modification of news photos is anathema to major news organizations . The Australian which published John’s photos editorial policy prohibits such manipulation. I don’t know Australian Birdlife’s policy, but I think many of its readers would be disappointed it has published bird images with part of the plumage faked (cloned from elsewhere). No doubt some news organisations are less scrupulous and in other parts of the media digital manipulation is ubiquitous, but John Young himself said in an ABC interview (about fig parrot photos) that such manipulation in this context was inappropriate: “I lightened them, darkened them, did my own sort of stuff and I was criticised and probably rightly so.” And in a 2007 story about the fig parrot he said he’d avoiding even the possibility of such alterations in future: ” [Mr Young] has since bought a special $6000 camera which takes pictures which cannot be digitally altered” Andrew =============================== To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) http://birding-aus.org ===============================

pratincole08

October 15, 2013 at 8:17 am

Oh Lloyd, well said ! It’s about time someone of your stature in the birding world stood up in support of all the fantastic work that John Young does. One can only assume that his knockers are either very extreme sceptics or just plain jealous and it’s not worth spending any more time on them. I’ve been out in the field with John and can only bow to his abilities, patience, veracity and expertise. Tony. —–Original Message—– [mailto:birding-aus-bounces@lists.vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Lloyd Nielsen Sent: Monday, 14 October 2013 7:09 PM Someone asked for the truth in this matter so please read below. I should add that I have known John for about 30 years, have worked with him on many occasions and regard him as a close friend. John finally got the photos of the Night Parrot with the help of a birding friend who has accompanied him on many of the trips (and who also saw the parrot during that time). After the night of photography and some sleep was had, they packed up and headed for home – a 15 hour drive. As soon as John got within mobile range, he phoned me to say “We got it!” He was so excited that he could hardly get the words out. They arrived back in Cairns late that night. Next morning around 9.00 am John arrived up here at my place and we sat at my kitchen table and spent a couple of hours going through about 50 or so of the best photos as well as the video. I was the first to see them. I had already heard much of the sound that John had got on previous visits but we went through some of that again. Over previous years, I spent time with him out at some of the sites where he has been looking for the parrot, including the one where he finally got the photos. I have not been fortunate enough to see the bird myself but know the exact site where he photographed it – in fact the very spinifex bush the bird disappeared under! As far as John altering the photo digitally is concerned, all he did was to take a small spinifex twig off the birds back which was spoiling the photo. I have just spoken to him again and he assures me adamantly that before he sent the photo that is all he did (not that I needed that assurance). The photo (a jpg!) was not for scientific consumption but for PUBLIC consumption! What is the drama over that? Some people seem to have problems differentiating between the two – just read the debate on Bird Forum. It is something which happens a million times a day in the publishing world. There are another hundred plus original Raw files which will be available for publication at a later date with a scientific paper if needed. I really can’t believe some of the comments and doubting from some people which has made its way onto Birding-aus!! John Young is one of the most remarkable and talented field ornithologists Australia has ever seen and yet there are people out there (mostly those who have never met him) who still try to put him down at every opportunity. And as far as the “debate” on the Bird Forum website is concerned, after reading a few of those postings, I quickly hit the delete button – I have better things to do than to waste time reading discussion such as that which at times denigrates Australian birding and birders, with some bordering on defamation. Why don’t these people take some notice of the Aussies? A few noted Australian ornithologists made an attempt to convince them that the sighting and photographs were genuine but that seemed to be ignored but a number of contributors. Finally, a message to the doubters and knockers – for goodness sake, go take a cold shower and give the man a break!! Recognise his ability, what he has achieved and what he is doing. Allow him to make more data available in his own good time. He is already working on the parrot and its welfare (voluntarily with no financial remuneration) with others including some from the scientific community. The object of this is to determine the status of the bird etc etc, trying to locate it in other areas, to determine the best ways to protect the bird, AND ways in which others might see it without endangering the species. You are not helping either the cause (especially when and if funds need to be raised at some time), the future of the Night Parrot or the chance for others to see it! And for those people asking (almost demanding) him to divulge all that he has gained, discovered and learned so far – does one immediately write a paper at first encounter with a species? He has already conducted a public forum at his own expense for the benefit of birders. Just remember this – John derives a living from consultancy etc. in the natural history field (he does not have a highly paid government or other job) and the quest for the Night Parrot has already cost him more than 6 figures of his own money as well as thousands of hours in the field for which he has received very little remuneration to date. Are these people going to contribute to some form of remuneration. Give the man a break! Lloyd Nielsen, Mt Molloy, Nth Qld http://www.birdingaustralia.com.au =============================== To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) http://birding-aus.org =============================== =============================== To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) http://birding-aus.org ===============================

calyptorhynchus

October 15, 2013 at 6:27 am

Correct me if I’m wrong, but JY doesn’t have to prove the NP still exists, as it was never declared extinct. Any paper he writes would merely be to describe new behaviour he has observed. John Leonard to see the bird myself but know the exact site where he photographed it – in fact the very spinifex bush the bird disappeared under! =============================== To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) http://birding-aus.org ===============================

l.knight

October 14, 2013 at 10:10 pm

Thanks for those comments Lloyd. My understanding is that there are currently 2 published photos of the birds in question. I think this debate would not have arisen if John Young had made a third, unmodified photo available. Something to bear in mind for future action. Regards, Laurie. On 14/10/2013, at 6:38 PM, Lloyd Nielsen wrote: =============================== To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) http://birding-aus.org ===============================