Is there anyone out there who is prepared to offer a justification for these practices? Anyone who can quantify how it benefits the birds?? Back in 2002, I was living in the USA and volunteered on a spring migration banding team on the Lake Erie southern shore – one of the major migration hotspots. I guess my motivation was the opportunities it would offer to see and photograph birds at close quarters. But I didn’t last long – I was appalled by the mortality and trauma involved. Not many birds actually injured themselves or died in the mist nets (though one death is one too many), but many got so badly entangled that they were injured being extracted from the nets. And there was a further mortality rate of birds in the keep bags. I quit pretty quickly! As far as I could see, the only entities benefitting from the exercise were the (human) banders/organisers in being able to report “higher numbers than last year”, and to thus gain further funding to do it all over again the next year. I think by now we know the migratory ranges of most every species, so the practice of banding/flagging is surely past it’s use-by date. Trevor Manley
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I have very mixed views on this – we need the scientific data, but birds do undoubtedly suffer. I have on several occasions seen injured birds just after cannon netting has occured in an area – can’t prove that was the cause of course, but having a fairly heavy net hurled at a small bird seems highly likely to injure a few.
As for survival rates it is almost impossible to say – if a flag does hinder a bird’s ability to fly/feed etc then it is almost certainly going to die somewhere where it will not be found – so all we can say is that a small %age of flagged birds are found alive (and we get data from that) and we really don’t know what happens to the rest – some undoubtedly die in migration, but whether a higher %age of flagged birds die en route compared to non-flagged birds would be almost impossible to determine.
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Dear Peter et al,
Whilst I am also loath to start this up again, I have to comment on this. ANYONE observing such terrible banding practises as described by Trevor Manley should IMMEDIATELY report them to the authorities, starting with, in Australia, the ABBBS. I would fully expect under this scenario for licenses to be pulled. Birds should not be getting injured during extraction from mist nets – the net is expendable, the bird is not. On the extremely rare occasions that the bird is hopelessly tangled (for a skilled bander this should virtually never be an issue), the net should be cut to free the bird as quickly as possible. The debacle described seems due to the complete stupidity of whoever was in charge, clearly there were too many birds in the nets (so the nets should have been closed until all birds were processed and released) and/or untrained individuals were not being given suitable supervision during extractions. Neither is acceptable practise. In any case, it is unfair to use an e xample of an (American? sorry forgotten) experience to lump all banders and cannon netting waders into the same group.
What is needed is evidence from both sides. The case for positive outcomes and expanding knowledge with banding is more than met, anyone arguing that banding tells us nothing scientifically has not bothered to check the literature. What we need is studies assessing the impact of banding itself, both from a metal service (i.e. numbered ABBS band) right through to flags/satellite trackers etc. Some studies are out there, but we need more. I would urge those calling for the practise to be banned to provide evidence demonstrating that it is damaging survival probabilities. If this can be produced, I would be happy to work with whoever has such data to help them publish it. If it can’t be produced, then rather than slander people in a public forum (thereby further expanding the divide between both camps), why not volunteer to assist some banding activities and start collecting data on negative aspects of the practise yourself? The reality is, if you feel strongly that this is such a negative practise, the only way you will ever stop it is provided evidence that it is negatively impacting upon the birds. I doubt any of the wader banding folk bother reading Birding-Aus so it is a fruitless thread here, and why would they when baseless accusations get thrown at them on a c.3 monthly basis?
Personally, I haven’t used leg flags so don’t know much about them, but certainly haven’t seen any evidence of handicapped waders. Having said this, the effects might be quite subtle and be influencing metabolism or corticosterone loads or the like, so a study on this would be useful if not completed already (try searching google scholar or web of knowledge for ‘leg bands’ etc). In short, personal attacks do not help anyone’s cause, only data will solve this argument. If you don’t have data, look for it, if it doesn’t exist then go and help get it. Otherwise I’d suggest that you have little to add to the thread.
Cheers, Paul
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Jill,
Invisible Connections can still be downloaded from the Wetlands International site at http://www.wetlands.org/WatchRead/tabid/56/mod/1570/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/2181/Invisible-Connections.aspx
Cheers,
Carl Clifford
Hi again,
Invisible Connections is a really superior publication, and was put together in two languages (one being English, the other is I think Korean) just prior to the Ramsar conference in South Korea a couple of years ago. As I understand it, every Ramsar delegate was gifted a copy. The book is filled with superlative photos, along with very accessible text, making it suitable as a gift for anyone who knows nothing about shorebirds, as well as for those who know plenty. Many on this list will know that Danny Rogers, as well as being a top class and dedicated scientist, is an excellent writer. Danny was the Australian leader of the field work done in Saemangeum for some years leading up to the Ramsar conference.
The book was available as a download, but that may no longer be the case, as it was released last year in an English version, for public sale. Someone might like to correct me if it is still available as a download.
Cheers,
Jill
Jill Dening Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
26° 51′ 41″S 152° 56′ 00″E
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If anyone would like a pdf copy of “Invisible Connections”, I would be happy to send it to them. A warning, though. It is a 21.4 Mb file.
Cheers,
Carl Clifford
Hi all, I concur, for what it’s worth….. May I suggest all interested parties purchase that gem of a publication, “Invisible Connections”, Why Migrating Shorebirds Need the Yellow Sea. A host of authors, with unbelievable photos by Jan van de Kam, who captures all facets of the miraculous, migrating shorebirds. I seem to remember CSIRO published it. (I have no financial interest in this – but the book is a must as part of our understanding of the Asian-Australasian Flyway….and, a joy to behold).
One day minuscule satellite tags will be available to help in detecting the movement of even those smallest of birds – to help protect them…THAT is what it’s about. And, let’s not get anthropomorphic guys…. Cheers, Peter Madvig
Invisible Connections can be downloaded from the following. You have to give some personal details to the Wetlands International website and elect whether to be kept informed about their work.
http://www.wetlands.org/WatchRead/tabid/56/mod/1570/articleType/downloadinfo/articleId/2181/Default.aspx
Jill
Jill Dening Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
26° 51′ 41″S 152° 56′ 00″E
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I’d also recommend tracking down the couple of DVDs Chris Hassell has had produced about waders on Roebuck Bay and banding efforts there. I have not seen these DVDs myself, but I’m sure they will answer a lot of questions.
From my own experience at the occasional cannon netting session in Broome, I find it hard to believe that these people are doing it purely for their own gain – they go out day in, day out for three weeks, in stifling heat and humidity from dawn to dusk working to net and band these birds in the most efficinet and strees-free way possible. It is an awesome experience, but I wouldn’t really call it fun.
It would also seem that the team leaders such as Clive Minton and Chris Hassell are far more concerned about the welfare of the birds than for any of the humans involved. The people can care for themselves, the birds need all the help they can get to be transferred to the most stress-free environment possible while processing (dark, shaded pens – hot sand must be scraped away to reveal the cool beneath), and to be processed in the fastest, most effiecient way possible.
Belinda Forbes Stirling
Hi again,
Invisible Connections is a really superior publication, and was put together in two languages (one being English, the other is I think Korean) just prior to the Ramsar conference in South Korea a couple of years ago. As I understand it, every Ramsar delegate was gifted a copy. The book is filled with superlative photos, along with very accessible text, making it suitable as a gift for anyone who knows nothing about shorebirds, as well as for those who know plenty. Many on this list will know that Danny Rogers, as well as being a top class and dedicated scientist, is an excellent writer. Danny was the Australian leader of the field work done in Saemangeum for some years leading up to the Ramsar conference.
The book was available as a download, but that may no longer be the case, as it was released last year in an English version, for public sale. Someone might like to correct me if it is still available as a download.
Cheers,
Jill
Jill Dening Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
26° 51′ 41″S 152° 56′ 00″E
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Hi all, I concur, for what it’s worth….. May I suggest all interested parties purchase that gem of a publication, “Invisible Connections”, Why Migrating Shorebirds Need the Yellow Sea. A host of authors, with unbelievable photos by Jan van de Kam, who captures all facets of the miraculous, migrating shorebirds. I seem to remember CSIRO published it. (I have no financial interest in this – but the book is a must as part of our understanding of the Asian-Australasian Flyway….and, a joy to behold).
One day minuscule satellite tags will be available to help in detecting the movement of even those smallest of birds – to help protect them…THAT is what it’s about. And, let’s not get anthropomorphic guys…. Cheers, Peter Madvig
G’day all,
Nicely put, Jill !!!!
Cheers
Martin Cachard Cairns
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Hi Everyone,
Governments do not listen to emotional and unsubstantiated information. They require proof before they will act. So how do you get proof that birds migrate? You band them, acquire information, and then you go back to the government, plus the overseas governments where the birds spend time during their migrations. Only then does the fight begin for the conservation of birds through their flyways. And this is only the first step in acquiring knowledge about bird migration patterns. Many of the conservation plans in place now for birds came about as a result of banding information.
Cheers,
Jill
Jill Dening Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
26° 51′ 41″S 152° 56′ 00″E
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There was an earlier posting, I forget whose, that said that they didn’t like the injuries caused by trapping waders, but they were quite ok with mist nets. But here Trevor Manley says he has seen mist nets cause “appalling injury and trauma”.
Why the difference in experiences? Can anyone explain this?
Peter Shute
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