We felt sickened when we found a large ginger tabby curled up in what we presume is a Letter-wing Kite nest in the tree where we found a family of 2 adults and 2 young last year in SA. Bev got one poor photo, but the cat scooted down and out of the tree as she approached to get better shots. We have seen more cats on this trip through NSW, Qld, and SA than ever before. Today, we watched a large grey cat stalking a huge mob of Little Corella feeding on the ground just after we came out of Sturt NP on our way to Tibboburra. Throughout the trip, we have had many locals, some from the grazing industry, bemoaning the number of cats and the damage they are doing. One suggested that explosion of bush rats in western Qld in 2011 led to an increase in cats that lives on to this day.
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As good as any.
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I hope you will forgive me, but this may be the answer to the cat problem… [1]http://www.flixxy.com/information-technology-managers.htm James Tate, Jr. Ancora Imparo (Italian)- I am still learning… Michelangelo References 1. http://www.flixxy.com/information-technology-managers.htm
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I think the idea was that the cats of Asian origin might have been here much longer, and might therefore have already done all the damage they’re going to do, not that they’re less destructive. But even if that’s correct, if they’re only found in the north then what do we do about all these more recently introduced cats in the south? Peter Shute Sent from my iPad
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I don’t know about “a concerted effort by some out there to convince the public that Northern (tropical) feral cats are no different and have been on mainland Australia, no longer than any of the others feral cats that we see roaming the bush across the rest of the land”. All I know about the issue, is the same vague comments to suggest that cats were introduced to northern Australia prior to 1788. The evidence supporting the idea has never seemed more than a single repeated unsupported suggestion. Not much to raise a concerted effort against. Apologies if I did not know it all. What Ian wrote is the first attempt I have seen of anyone to provide any kind of supportive evidence. That at least is sort of interesting and maybe directs a discussion. Though I think it is pretty flimsy evidence. Indeed really nothing direct to support an idea that just would seem unlikely. I wonder how and why these people would bring cats to Australia. Also this message is not about hating cats…… Though I sure wish they weren’t here. It appears in part based on data on the coat colours of these feral cats. I am not quite sure what to make of the suggested differences. Coat colour genetics of cats is well known. If there are specific different genes in the Asian populations and those of northern Australia, that should be more obvious than suggested. The bob tail is also a good question. 38 years ago, I did a 3rd year Genetics project (La Trobe Uni) investigating the coat pattern genetics of feral cats, testing the hypothesis that under some selective pressure for camouflage assisting better hunting or protection from predators they would tend to revert to wild-type. Was a fun project and the results went in favour of the suggestion but it was hard to get a good quantity of data back then. Sadly at the time there was not enough data in it to justify publication of it. Though there was enough data to be suggestive of a result. What came from the literature review I did at the time of some studies that related coat colour genetics to tracing populations in urban centres at various places around the world and what I have found since then is that yes the idea of comparing relative frequencies of identifiable genes can mean something that contributes to history. But it can also be confused by time as these phenotypes in a population can change quite quickly. There could easily be separate selective pressures operating in the tropics to cause local differentiation and it is likely that these could have happened within 2 centuries. On another point, the subject lines of these emails about cats (and swifts) on this over the past few weeks have behaved like herding cats. Now cats are linked to WTNT in NE Tasmania. As far removed from cats in northern Australia as we can get and worthy of its own separate header. Can people please create new subjects if needed and try to be consistent so that thoughts don’t get lost and confused……… Philip —–Original Message—– Carl Clifford Sent: Tuesday, 10 March 2015 12:25 PM Cc: drmhunter@westnet.com.au; birding-aus@birding-aus.org Do any feral cats in the top end have bobbed or deformed tails? Bob or deformed tails are very common in Asian domestic cats, and the gene in Australian ferals would be a good indicator of cats being brought in from Asia. Carl Clifford public that Northern (tropical) feral cats are no different and have been on mainland Australia, no longer than any of the others feral cats that we see roaming the bush across the rest of the land. In my experience, that does not seem correct and is probably wrong. The theory that northern tropical feral cats were introduced by early Makassar sailors to me seems not only plausible, but likely. most of the ancient Makassar trepang (Sea Cucumbers, Holothurians) camps located along the coast from Darwin to Boome, I observed that most feral cats in remote coastal areas away from towns are similar if not identical in appearance to a typical Timor/Makassar tabby type. Furthermore, compared to the larger type feral cats of inland Australia, the behaviour and habits of the feral cats inhabiting remote coastal tropical areas are more cryptic and, notwithstanding the heavier vegetation cover of their habitat, much more difficult to locate compared to their inland cousins. Tropical feral cats have a much more uniform appearance, seem smaller and are distinctively different compared to feral cats of inland Australia. Of course, there is an obviuos influence of more typical house cat type ferals as one moved closer to established human communities. northern Australian coast is not surprising. This does not diminish the possibility/probability that cats were introduced to northern Australia many years, probably more than 400+ years before European settlement by Makassar or even earlier, by Madagascan sailors. How many dead cats would one really expect to see at any archaeological site in northern Australia including European sites? However, for all its unique cultural significance, Aboriginal art is not the most reliable form of natural history recording. In some of the remotest parts of the Kimberley coast there are what is known as Bradshaw style (Gyorn Gyorn) paintings( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradshaw_rock_paintings ) among many other things, showing what appear to be Madagascan type sailors wearing trouser tassels and representing other characteristic artefacts’ some including animals and sailing boats. The fact that the Bradshaw paintings precedes aboriginal art and have been painted over by ancient Wanjana aboriginal paintings; themselves known to be hundreds of years older than first known European visits to the mainland has become controversial. Bradshaw paintings could be 60000 years old but, to discuss this topic is considered in some circles to be politically incorrect, just like the discussion around the likelihood that feral cats have probably been on mainland Australia for a long time, at least many hundreds of years too. notwithstanding the predation of an occasional night parrot, it is difficult for a cat hater to argue or acknowledge that much of the damage that can be caused by feral cats has probably already been done and that the natural environment is most likely now accommodating an uncomfortable balance; and that the impacts from feral cats are now more likely determined from population fluctuations due to varying but natural seasonal conditions. two hour flyover of Spine-tailed Swifts (WTNT) from 0830. from St Helens Point and Stieglitz to Binalong Bay to confirm that it was happening all across the broad area. Throughout this time, there were between 1 and 5 birds in any field of view, rarely any period when birds were not evident, their general movement was inland. Impossible to estimate numbers but must have been many hundreds, or possibly a thousand + birds. Earlier in the morning, we watched the slow offshore movement of a dense rain bearing low pressure tough moving offshore from St Helens point. The front was carrying many hundreds of Albatross and Petrels. established in Australia prior to European settlement. There’s been a paper or two on this from a few years back but I’ll have to dig it/them out when I get back to the office. From memory the evidence was based on time frames of invasion, and old reports, ship records, etc. There may have been something genetic in there too, but I can’t really remember. I do remember being satisfied that the researcher(s) had been thorough, and they convinced me. else on the list has recent papers supporting the alternative hypothesis, of multiple introductions including prior to European settlement, I’d love to see them, because it’s something I like to keep up with. myth of the large outback moggie, fed a high-protein diet (as opposed to?). My former boss did some work on cats and from memory the average size was under 4 kg (n = a 100 or so from memory). There are large Felis catus (to avoid the term “big cats”) out there, but I’ve seen hundreds of cats that I would put in the 2 – 4 kg guesstimate and about three that were big, maybe > 5 kg. and they have modified the distribution and survival of birds and animals since first introduced, from Indonesia by the Makassar’s and later by Europeans. Apparently the Northwest half of Oz has genetically Indonesian type cats, the Southeast are European, for what that is worth. would be worthwhile. It cost $25 million to control rabbits on Macquarie Island, what price Night Parrot ad other ground or termite mound nesters and what are left of our small mammals recent post is very interesting. Just how you would get the pussies to pass the spraying machine is another matter. could be isolated, concentrated and spread around to attract males from far and wide, and possibly territorial females, would be effective.
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Or a night parrot if I was actually awake when I wrote the last mail… Ken Cross —–Original Message—– Ken Cross Sent: Wednesday, 4 March 2015 6:18 AM Cc: birding-aus@birding-aus.org Sad that this is a bigger story than a feral cat devouring a ground parrot… http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-03/tourists-flock-to-japans-cat-island-ao shima/6278128 Ken Cross —–Original Message—– Eric.Vanderduys@csiro.au Sent: Tuesday, 3 March 2015 10:46 PM Cc: birding-aus@birding-aus.org Hi Michael, I believe there is no support for the hypothesis that cats were established in Australia prior to European settlement. There’s been a paper or two on this from a few years back but I’ll have to dig it/them out when I get back to the office. From memory the evidence was based on time frames of invasion, and old reports, ship records, etc. There may have been something genetic in there too, but I can’t really remember. I do remember being satisfied that the researcher(s) had been thorough, and they convinced me. It’s a bit of a longstanding myth, and I certainly believed it based on the appearances of some cats I’d seen in N. Aust. If you or anyone else on the list has recent papers supporting the alternative hypothesis, of multiple introductions including prior to European settlement, I’d love to see them, because it’s something I like to keep up with. And without really wanting to cause a stir, I think it’s a bit like the myth of the large outback moggie, fed a high-protein diet (as opposed to?). My former boss did some work on cats and from memory the average size was under 4 kg (n = a 100 or so from memory). There are large Felis catus (to avoid the term “big cats”) out there, but I’ve seen hundreds of cats that I would put in the 2 – 4 kg guesstimate and about three that were big, maybe > 5 kg. Again, I’ll dig out the figures when I get back to the office. Regards, Eric wrote: and they have modified the distribution and survival of birds and animals since first introduced, from Indonesia by the Makassar’s and later by Europeans. Apparently the Northwest half of Oz has genetically Indonesian type cats, the Southeast are European, for what that is worth. effective control methods are invented, distributing those controls would be worthwhile. It cost $25 million to control rabbits on Macquarie Island, what price Night Parrot ad other ground or termite mound nesters and what are left of our small mammals recent post is very interesting. Just how you would get the pussies to pass the spraying machine is another matter. could be isolated, concentrated and spread around to attract males from far and wide, and possibly territorial females, would be effective. baited with “Snappy Tom” canned cat food, and the miscreants humanely and painlessly disposed of via the local vet. Feral cats are said to be extremely indisposed to entering metal traps. Research into overcoming that problem (larger traps sprayed with pheromones and completely devoid of human odour) should work at least some of the time. already been done. answers?
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Sad that this is a bigger story than a feral cat devouring a ground parrot… http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-03/tourists-flock-to-japans-cat-island-ao shima/6278128 Ken Cross —–Original Message—– Eric.Vanderduys@csiro.au Sent: Tuesday, 3 March 2015 10:46 PM Cc: birding-aus@birding-aus.org Hi Michael, I believe there is no support for the hypothesis that cats were established in Australia prior to European settlement. There’s been a paper or two on this from a few years back but I’ll have to dig it/them out when I get back to the office. From memory the evidence was based on time frames of invasion, and old reports, ship records, etc. There may have been something genetic in there too, but I can’t really remember. I do remember being satisfied that the researcher(s) had been thorough, and they convinced me. It’s a bit of a longstanding myth, and I certainly believed it based on the appearances of some cats I’d seen in N. Aust. If you or anyone else on the list has recent papers supporting the alternative hypothesis, of multiple introductions including prior to European settlement, I’d love to see them, because it’s something I like to keep up with. And without really wanting to cause a stir, I think it’s a bit like the myth of the large outback moggie, fed a high-protein diet (as opposed to?). My former boss did some work on cats and from memory the average size was under 4 kg (n = a 100 or so from memory). There are large Felis catus (to avoid the term “big cats”) out there, but I’ve seen hundreds of cats that I would put in the 2 – 4 kg guesstimate and about three that were big, maybe > 5 kg. Again, I’ll dig out the figures when I get back to the office. Regards, Eric wrote: and they have modified the distribution and survival of birds and animals since first introduced, from Indonesia by the Makassar’s and later by Europeans. Apparently the Northwest half of Oz has genetically Indonesian type cats, the Southeast are European, for what that is worth. effective control methods are invented, distributing those controls would be worthwhile. It cost $25 million to control rabbits on Macquarie Island, what price Night Parrot ad other ground or termite mound nesters and what are left of our small mammals recent post is very interesting. Just how you would get the pussies to pass the spraying machine is another matter. could be isolated, concentrated and spread around to attract males from far and wide, and possibly territorial females, would be effective. baited with “Snappy Tom” canned cat food, and the miscreants humanely and painlessly disposed of via the local vet. Feral cats are said to be extremely indisposed to entering metal traps. Research into overcoming that problem (larger traps sprayed with pheromones and completely devoid of human odour) should work at least some of the time. already been done. answers?
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Hi Michael, I believe there is no support for the hypothesis that cats were established in Australia prior to European settlement. There’s been a paper or two on this from a few years back but I’ll have to dig it/them out when I get back to the office. From memory the evidence was based on time frames of invasion, and old reports, ship records, etc. There may have been something genetic in there too, but I can’t really remember. I do remember being satisfied that the researcher(s) had been thorough, and they convinced me. It’s a bit of a longstanding myth, and I certainly believed it based on the appearances of some cats I’d seen in N. Aust. If you or anyone else on the list has recent papers supporting the alternative hypothesis, of multiple introductions including prior to European settlement, I’d love to see them, because it’s something I like to keep up with. And without really wanting to cause a stir, I think it’s a bit like the myth of the large outback moggie, fed a high-protein diet (as opposed to?). My former boss did some work on cats and from memory the average size was under 4 kg (n = a 100 or so from memory). There are large Felis catus (to avoid the term “big cats”) out there, but I’ve seen hundreds of cats that I would put in the 2 – 4 kg guesstimate and about three that were big, maybe > 5 kg. Again, I’ll dig out the figures when I get back to the office. Regards, Eric
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very nicely put Shirley – I absolutely agree & I believe this is the ONLY angle from which to attack this issue!! cheers, martin cachard cairns _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Interesting. Our local council on their website points out to cat owners the recent WA legislation with the following. “*/The Cat Act 2011/* The Act was introduced by the State Government with the aim of encouraging responsible pet ownership and reducing the number of unwanted cats across Western Australia. From 1 November 2013, under the Act, owners of cats (over the age of 6 months) must ensure they have their feline pets: *1. Micro-chipped, wearing a collar and registration tags* (foridentification purposes if the animal becomes lost or injured) *2. Sterilised*– unless being used for breeding purposes by a City of Stirling approved breeder (discount sterilisation applies to City of Stirling Residents)*^* * *3. Registered *– with the Local Government (see below) Local Government officers will be authorised to enforce this legislation and fines may apply to owners who do not comply. Cat owners should *register *their cat(s) with the City of Stirling. Cat Registration form print version Online registration form Registration Fees Registration 1 Year 3 Year Lifetime Full Fee $20.00 $42.50 $100.00 Pension Concession** $10.00 $21.25 $50.00 I guess we will have to wait to see how effective it is but the future direction is promising. Cheers Andrew On 11/07/2014 10:03 AM, Chris Melrose wrote: — *********************************************************** Andrew Hobbs pardalote@iinet.net.au *********************************************************** _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Dear Shirley I was on a committee for North Sydney Council to make recommendations for the implementation of the Companion Animals Act many years ago. Being a Bush Regenerator in a previous life I was determined to get restrictions put on cats, such as micro-chipping, rules that they do not leave the residential property, etc. But to no avail. At that time, they were concerned mainly about dogs because of attacks on other dogs and to people by unrestrained dogs in parks. The cats got away with it. The fact that they kill and maim other creatures indiscriminately does not bother our legislators because the cat’s owner is never taken to court. I would suggest that we each become very active within our local government area and petition our councils and the state government to amend this legislation. If we make a big enough noise, they will have to listen. Perhaps it would also be helpful to get information from Birdlife to back us up; such as how many creatures, what type of creatures are killed. This will only get heard if we deal with facts and not handle it emotionally. We need our local councils and state government ministers onside. So to start, does anyone have researched information that we can put into our letters and petitions? Cheers Chris Christine Melrose cmelrose099@gmail.com +61 407705140 _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
I am glad that Charles has make the point about dogs being banned from roaming outside their owner’s premises. I am required by law to register, have her microchipped or wear a name tag and contact telephone niumber, and control my pet dog. I am able to report stray dogs to Council, and the Council will capture the dog and the owner will pay a fine to retrieve it. If I capture a cat and take it to Council, I am required to “prove” that it does not belong to a neighbour. The cat owner is not required by law to identify or control the animal. Believe me, I am also a total animal lover and happily cuddle my granddaughter’s cat, a lovely old soft purry animal, but the total unfairness of it all angers me. Shirley Cook —– Original Message —– Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 8:50 AM _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
I think we’re starting to move away from out main topic – that of Australian birds, their habitat & conservation. Can we drop the discussion about cats now, please? Bill (moderator) _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Cat lovers are animal lovers? I have numerous cat and dog lover friends who claim to be animal lovers. I like to shock them by saying that pet-less me is the only animal lover they know. I don’t castrate animals just to make them behave around the house; I don’t deny them the company of their own kind and to live their own lives. I am happy dogs are kept on leashes but I wouldn’t put a belt around the neck of a loved one. I see cat lovers all around me, and their cats roaming my streets at night. They’re lucky I am not king of the world. _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Hi Julian, You make a number of good points in your rather emotional defence of you being a cat lover. The great frustration that people suffer when they see domestic cats roaming free and killing a whole range of native fauna, not just birds, without any real restrictions by government, causes people to get, like you, emotional and suggest rather radical, and sometimes impractical actions. It is not impractical, or unreasonable, though to insist on preventing the large number of domestic cats that are out killing wildlife during the day and night to be controlled. I personally would prefer no domestic cats in Australia but realise that this is not practical. I also accept that some people like cats, although I find little to like in them, unlike the larger members of the family such as Tigers, Leopards, Ocelots etc. which I find interesting and beautiful. You are right that it is not the cat’s fault that it is a cat and that it has been taken all over the world by humans to wreak havoc on the wildlife of many lands. So it is up to humans, in particular cat owners, to be responsible. I wouldn’t doubt that you would be a responsible cat owner but the evidence of roaming cats suggests that you are in the minority. Domestic cats should be confined to indoors or to a cat run when outdoors. It is not too much to ask of caring animal lovers to separate the unnatural predator from the unsuspecting prey. Regards Greg Dr Greg. P. Clancy Ecologist and Birding-wildlife Guide | PO Box 63 Coutts Crossing NSW 2460 | 02 6649 3153 | 0429 601 960 http://www.gregclancyecologistguide.com http://gregswildliferamblings.blogspot.com.au/ —-Original Message—– Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 8:48 AM Unlike Ross, I am unashamedly a cat lover; nay, I consider myself an animal lover per se and make no exceptions. I have, over the years, travelled to many corners around the globe and on each occasion have come across top notch birders who also have a pet cat [or two]. That tally includes top birders here in Australia. The current anti-cat thread is an old chestnut that keeps raising its often nonsensical head on an almost regular basis and appears to become more radical with each reincarnation: de-sex ALL male cats; round them up and send them back to England; shoot all feral cats; shoot, or in some other way, do away with ALL domestic cats; etc., etc., ad nauseum, ad bloody nauseum. _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Hi Julian, I agree totally with your underlying message that rather than cats being the problem that people are the problem. It is one of humanities greatest failings in that we create a problem and then go ahead and blame everything else once the consequences arise. Cats are just one these failings, Flying Foxes are another…we have knocked down so much of their native environment and then complain bitterly when they move into towns/places where they become inconvenient to us. Kangaroos are another, we supply plenty of food and water for them in a country that never used to support the quantities of freely available water and are “surprised” when their populations increase and become a “problem” for us. The list goes on and on and it doesn’t take much research to find what “animal” is really behind all these “problems”. End Rant
Cheers Glenn McRae This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are privileged and confidential information intended for the use of the addressee. Neither the confidentiality of nor any privilege in the e-mail is waived, lost or destroyed by the reason that it has been transmitted other than to the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify me immediately on the number above or by return e-mail. Please delete the original e-mail. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be otherwise. —–Original Message—– Julian Bielewicz Sent: Thursday, 10 July 2014 8:48 AM Unlike Ross, I am unashamedly a cat lover; nay, I consider myself an animal lover per se and make no exceptions. I have, over the years, travelled to many corners around the globe and on each occasion have come across top notch birders who also have a pet cat [or two]. That tally includes top birders here in Australia. The current anti-cat thread is an old chestnut that keeps raising its often nonsensical head on an almost regular basis and appears to become more radical with each reincarnation: de-sex ALL male cats; round them up and send them back to England; shoot all feral cats; shoot, or in some other way, do away with ALL domestic cats; etc., etc., ad nauseum, ad bloody nauseum. “Feline phobics” tend to overlook a number of salient points. You yourself, Ross, hinted at one of their oversights. There are infinitely more cat lovers than birdwatchers in Australia and politicians work on the greatest ballot return for the least effort. Cat lover votes outnumber birdwatcher votes by a significant margin. Indeed, if it came down to the mass genocide of cats in Australia I doubt that even all birders would jump onto the bandwagon of these drastic measures. And of course cats are not the root problem, people are. People, specifically Europeans, brought the cat to Australia. Europeans are responsible for far more habitat/fauna destruction than any other introduced species to these shores. In terms of destruction, how would a canal estate development [a solely human activity] equate with the damage caused to wildlife by feral cats? It would seem to me that those serious about safeguarding our native birds against the menace of this European pet malady should first consider a campaign to eradicate all irresponsible Australian cat owners: castrate all macho males; ship them all back to England [these people have to be Poms, no self-respecting dinky-di Aussie would ever release a cat into the wild]. Or we could simply exterminate all the Australian ferals – the gays and lesbians; the Communists and anyone else who votes left of the Political Party we favour; the Vegans and the Greens; the Jews, Moslems and all other hair-brained, half-bake quasi-religious groups [the “God Squad” springs immediately to mind]. Without these irresponsible feral humans surely the problem of feral cats will be immediately eliminated. Oh dear! I suppose I’ll now get another bollocking from Bill. Cheers Julian P.S. I also maintain a birdtable and regularly feed wild birds. Most unscientific and Bolshie of me although I doubt I am alone in practising this heinous indiscretion. _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Unlike Ross, I am unashamedly a cat lover; nay, I consider myself an animal lover per se and make no exceptions. I have, over the years, travelled to many corners around the globe and on each occasion have come across top notch birders who also have a pet cat [or two]. That tally includes top birders here in Australia. The current anti-cat thread is an old chestnut that keeps raising its often nonsensical head on an almost regular basis and appears to become more radical with each reincarnation: de-sex ALL male cats; round them up and send them back to England; shoot all feral cats; shoot, or in some other way, do away with ALL domestic cats; etc., etc., ad nauseum, ad bloody nauseum. “Feline phobics” tend to overlook a number of salient points. You yourself, Ross, hinted at one of their oversights. There are infinitely more cat lovers than birdwatchers in Australia and politicians work on the greatest ballot return for the least effort. Cat lover votes outnumber birdwatcher votes by a significant margin. Indeed, if it came down to the mass genocide of cats in Australia I doubt that even all birders would jump onto the bandwagon of these drastic measures. And of course cats are not the root problem, people are. People, specifically Europeans, brought the cat to Australia. Europeans are responsible for far more habitat/fauna destruction than any other introduced species to these shores. In terms of destruction, how would a canal estate development [a solely human activity] equate with the damage caused to wildlife by feral cats? It would seem to me that those serious about safeguarding our native birds against the menace of this European pet malady should first consider a campaign to eradicate all irresponsible Australian cat owners: castrate all macho males; ship them all back to England [these people have to be Poms, no self-respecting dinky-di Aussie would ever release a cat into the wild]. Or we could simply exterminate all the Australian ferals – the gays and lesbians; the Communists and anyone else who votes left of the Political Party we favour; the Vegans and the Greens; the Jews, Moslems and all other hair-brained, half-bake quasi-religious groups [the “God Squad” springs immediately to mind]. Without these irresponsible feral humans surely the problem of feral cats will be immediately eliminated. Oh dear! I suppose I’ll now get another bollocking from Bill. Cheers Julian P.S. I also maintain a birdtable and regularly feed wild birds. Most unscientific and Bolshie of me although I doubt I am alone in practising this heinous indiscretion. _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Have to agree with you Ross, but I’m still allowed to dream. —–Original Message—– Ross Macfarlane Sent: Sunday, 6 July 2014 2:59 PM I’m sorry, I’m no cat lover, but I don’t see there’s much to be gained by proposing things which have less than zero chance of ever being taken seriously, and any proposal to outlaw owning cats is just that. —–Original Message—– Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2014 11:32 AM Tony The problem is that there is no head of power in the Constitution that the Commonwealth could use – without being challenged by the States (egged on by the cat fanciers et al). David —–Original Message—– Sent: 05 July 2014 09:53 David, except for your last para you make my point. To stop all the interstate/inter-council/inter-shire confusion and bickering the feds should bite the bullet and take control, making the keeping and breeding of cats illegal across the whole country on urban, private,and government land, and in national/state parks. A great start could be made by neutering domestic cats and shooting and baiting ferals. Impose hefty fines for owners not conforming _ and there are plenty of shooters who would be willing to take on the job given a suitable bounty, as with goats. The real problem lies with lily livered legislative authorities who fear a backlash from cat lovers. Which would be better? A bit of a whinge from cat lovers for a while or an unresolved and ongoing cat problem ? There really is no contest is there ? Tony. —–Original Message—– david robertson Sent: Friday, 4 July 2014 5:51 PM Control of cast is a very tricky question, primarily because it is a State responsibility not the Commonwealths (apart from on Commonwealth land). No two States have the same classification of cats between domestic home cats, feral cats in the Outback and those in between. The latter is bogged down because in law those in between could be regards as ‘property’. To molest them in any way could be a tort and might, just might, result in a law suit for damages to property. Complicating matters even further is that control of cats, if at all, is variously split between the States equivalent of the Department Parks and Wildlife and the States’ Department of Local Government. If it falls to the latter then it is usually hand balled to individual Councils or their equivalent. Some Councils in Adelaide have cat by-laws regarding registering, micro chipping, numbers permitted but for all practical purposes this is purely voluntary. No animal health officer could or is capable of rounding up cats to check whether they comply with the by-law. In the longer term one has to consider what might happen if one removed a predator in the food chain. Do feral cats keep foxes in control by competing for the same food supply? Look what happened in India when the vultures were almost exterminated. Feral dogs multiplied, human rabies cases increased, and so did leopards because dogs is their favourite food, and if there wasn’t a dog handy then a human would do. _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org —– No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG – http://www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7800 – Release Date: 07/04/14 _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Unfortunately that point may be even more relevant for transformer weeds that also happen to be cattle fodder, such as Gamba, Buffel and Para grasses and Olive Hymenachne. Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow PO Box 71 Darwin River, NT, Australia 0841 PhD candidate goodfellow@bigpond.com.au Founding Member: Ecotourism Australia Founding Member: Australian Federation of Graduate Women Northern Territory 043 8650 835 On 6 Jul 2014, at 2:59 pm, Ross Macfarlane < rmacfarl@tpg.com.au> wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
I’m sorry, I’m no cat lover, but I don’t see there’s much to be gained by proposing things which have less than zero chance of ever being taken seriously, and any proposal to outlaw owning cats is just that. —–Original Message—– Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2014 11:32 AM Tony The problem is that there is no head of power in the Constitution that the Commonwealth could use – without being challenged by the States (egged on by the cat fanciers et al). David —–Original Message—– Sent: 05 July 2014 09:53 David, except for your last para you make my point. To stop all the interstate/inter-council/inter-shire confusion and bickering the feds should bite the bullet and take control, making the keeping and breeding of cats illegal across the whole country on urban, private,and government land, and in national/state parks. A great start could be made by neutering domestic cats and shooting and baiting ferals. Impose hefty fines for owners not conforming _ and there are plenty of shooters who would be willing to take on the job given a suitable bounty, as with goats. The real problem lies with lily livered legislative authorities who fear a backlash from cat lovers. Which would be better? A bit of a whinge from cat lovers for a while or an unresolved and ongoing cat problem ? There really is no contest is there ? Tony. —–Original Message—– david robertson Sent: Friday, 4 July 2014 5:51 PM Control of cast is a very tricky question, primarily because it is a State responsibility not the Commonwealths (apart from on Commonwealth land). No two States have the same classification of cats between domestic home cats, feral cats in the Outback and those in between. The latter is bogged down because in law those in between could be regards as ‘property’. To molest them in any way could be a tort and might, just might, result in a law suit for damages to property. Complicating matters even further is that control of cats, if at all, is variously split between the States equivalent of the Department Parks and Wildlife and the States’ Department of Local Government. If it falls to the latter then it is usually hand balled to individual Councils or their equivalent. Some Councils in Adelaide have cat by-laws regarding registering, micro chipping, numbers permitted but for all practical purposes this is purely voluntary. No animal health officer could or is capable of rounding up cats to check whether they comply with the by-law. In the longer term one has to consider what might happen if one removed a predator in the food chain. Do feral cats keep foxes in control by competing for the same food supply? Look what happened in India when the vultures were almost exterminated. Feral dogs multiplied, human rabies cases increased, and so did leopards because dogs is their favourite food, and if there wasn’t a dog handy then a human would do. _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org —– No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG – http://www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7800 – Release Date: 07/04/14 _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
David, except for your last para you make my point. To stop all the interstate/inter-council/inter-shire confusion and bickering the feds should bite the bullet and take control, making the keeping and breeding of cats illegal across the whole country on urban, private,and government land, and in national/state parks. A great start could be made by neutering domestic cats and shooting and baiting ferals. Impose hefty fines for owners not conforming _ and there are plenty of shooters who would be willing to take on the job given a suitable bounty, as with goats. The real problem lies with lily livered legislative authorities who fear a backlash from cat lovers. Which would be better? A bit of a whinge from cat lovers for a while or an unresolved and ongoing cat problem ? There really is no contest is there ? Tony. —–Original Message—– david robertson Sent: Friday, 4 July 2014 5:51 PM Control of cast is a very tricky question, primarily because it is a State responsibility not the Commonwealths (apart from on Commonwealth land). No two States have the same classification of cats between domestic home cats, feral cats in the Outback and those in between. The latter is bogged down because in law those in between could be regards as ‘property’. To molest them in any way could be a tort and might, just might, result in a law suit for damages to property. Complicating matters even further is that control of cats, if at all, is variously split between the States equivalent of the Department Parks and Wildlife and the States’ Department of Local Government. If it falls to the latter then it is usually hand balled to individual Councils or their equivalent. Some Councils in Adelaide have cat by-laws regarding registering, micro chipping, numbers permitted but for all practical purposes this is purely voluntary. No animal health officer could or is capable of rounding up cats to check whether they comply with the by-law. In the longer term one has to consider what might happen if one removed a predator in the food chain. Do feral cats keep foxes in control by competing for the same food supply? Look what happened in India when the vultures were almost exterminated. Feral dogs multiplied, human rabies cases increased, and so did leopards because dogs is their favourite food, and if there wasn’t a dog handy then a human would do. _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Hi Denise, can you please expand on “loss of indigenous rangers from key parks” and “before they resigned” – what has prompted this? I am curious – surely they are needed both for their inherant knowledge of their local areas and for providing income/employment to communities in these areas email me direct if too politically sensitive for the list Ian On 8/07/2013 8:18 AM, Denise Goodfellow wrote: =============================== To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) http://birding-aus.org ===============================
Yes, certainly, and thank you, Peter, for asking. The second title says it all. Africanising the tropical woodlands: Canopy loss and tree death following gamba grass Andropogon gayanus invasion Ferdinands, K, Douglas, MM, Setterfield, S and Barratt, JL (2006). Africanising the tropical woodlands: Canopy loss and tree death following gamba grass Andropogon gayanus invasion. In: Sindel, BM and Johnson, SB 15th Australian Weeds Conference: Managing Weeds in a Changing Climate, Adelaide, 24-28 September 2006. http://espace.cdu.edu.au/view/cdu:6670 “Field of nightmares: gamba grass in the Top End”, Aaron Petty (2013). http://theconversation.com/field-of-nightmares-gamba-grass-in-the-top-end- 12178 I’m awaiting more articles from Dr. Petty. As I think I mentioned in an earlier email the NT Government has declared that Gamba grass is out of control from Darwin to Katherine. They are fighting a rear guard action trying to prevent it moving further south. The situation may have been made worse by the loss of Indigenous rangers from key parks – they tell me that weeds were under control before they resigned, but not now. Denise On 8/7/13 7:33 AM, “Peter Shute” < pshute@nuw.org.au> wrote: =============================== To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) http://birding-aus.org ===============================
You often mention Gamba Grass here, Denise, but there’s rarely any response. I know nothing about it, do you have any online references about the problem? Peter Shute =============================== To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) http://birding-aus.org ===============================
I suspect that the impact on wildlife of cats or cane toads will pale into insignificance against that of Gamba Grass, and I can’t see any body, Government or otherwise, investing much money in fighting that weed! Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow PO Box 71, Darwin River, NT 0841 043 8650 835 On 7/7/13 9:48 PM, “David Clark” < meathead.clark5@gmail.com> wrote: =============================== To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) http://birding-aus.org ===============================
I am currently travelling through northwestern Queensland and I have been surprised at the number of feral cats scavenging around campsites, crossing roads in broad daylight and feeding on roadkill. My first response was to bemoan the increase in the population of feral cats and to wonder about what damage they are doing to native fauna. However, the situation is not that simple. There has been no wet season for the past two years and the seed bearing plants haven’t produced seeds. This has had a dramatic impact on the numbers of seed eaters, particularly finches and small rodents. The latter are the main prey of feral cats and, in their absence, the cats are starving. There is not an increase in the feral cat population; the starving survivors are congregating where they may find food and are more visible to the casual observer than they are in normal conditions. I’m not saying that feral cats aren’t a problem but, in terms of impact on native animals, they come in well behind the Cane Toad. Goannas used to be common in the area through which I am travelling but not anymore. Olive Pythons are absent from most of their range. A dead Freshwater Crocodile floating down the creek two days ago was most likely a victim of Cane Toad poison. The Kites are back, and have presumably learned to avoid Cane Toads. There is a lot of local concern about feral cats and many of the north Queensland shires offer a bounty on cats’ tails. While that may put some money into the pockets of local people, it won’t really address the problem and I’m not sure that Governments are prepared to invest the money necessary to control feral cats, Cane Toads, feral pigs, feral camels, feral goats, feral dogs, Common Mynas, etc, etc. Cheers David On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Peter Morgan < nagrompr@bigpond.com> wrote: =============================== To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) http://birding-aus.org ===============================