Hi all My 14-year-old son, a pretty good bird-watcher, would like to get into bird photography. This would be his first camera, and I’d like some suggestions on good camera-lens combinations for him. I’m happy to go the DSLR route but don’t want to break the bank. Happy to receive suggestions or commentary off-line if preferable (and then will provide a summary of any consensus). Thanks Steve
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Hi all I’m very grateful to everyone who responded so generously and informatively to my question last month about how to set up a teenage son for bird photography. I received lots of ideas, people shared their experience, and several were prepared to let my son try out their camera. This isn’t the summary of consensus opinion I had offered. Rather, it’s a summary of the diversity of views I received – there is a wide range of favoured camera equipment out there in bird-land. (There is also a very large number of camera review websites, I have found!) Clearly the best set-up for bird photography is a DSLR (digital, single-lens reflex) camera with a long (telephoto) lens. Canon or Nikon were highly recommended as brands, and a lens focal length of at least 400 mm was generally seen as the minimum (whether a Canon or Nikon lens to match the camera body, or a Sigma or Tamron one). A zoom lens was seen as useful for both finding the bird then focusing in on it, in spite of the slight reduction in image quality over a fixed-length lens. However, the cost of a DSLR set-up of acceptable optical quality and build quality turned out to be approximately $1000 for the camera body, and $1500-2000 for the lens – that’s right, the lens should be well over half the total price of a good quality set-up. I was advised that cheaper bodies and lenses would need to be replaced after a few years, either through user dissatisfaction with the results or through the equipment not lasting too long. Moreover, even a minimum-quality DSLR camera-lens combination is heavy and unwieldy in the field, particularly for small hands, and many suggested that it was not the way to go for a beginner. Luckily there are a range of other camera types available. These generally have different (smaller) image sensors than modern DSLRs, so image quality is reduced, but they have other advantages. ‘Bridge’ cameras area a kind of compact camera that bridge the quality gap between cheaper compact cameras and DSLRs, and ‘super-zoom’ bridge cameras have very long zoom lenses suitable for birding. Like ordinary compact digital cameras, bridge cameras don’t have exchangeable lenses. The superzoom bridge cameras of recommended brands such as Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Canon or Nikon typically have 1/2.3-inch sensors, and these smaller sensors mean that the zoom lens on the camera is not excessively large or heavy. The superzoom lenses have wide focal ranges such as 25-600 mm, so also can be used for normal photography (of landscapes, buildings, people &c) as well as bird photography, plans macro functions for flowers and insects. So they can serve as an all-round camera without the need to change lenses – great for a beginner who is not looking for highest image quality. These superzoom bridge cameras are substantially cheaper than DSLRs with telephoto lenses – they cost $400-700 for ones with quality optics. They are also much smaller and more portable than DSLRs, although not so compact as to fit in a pocket. Several people told me stories about bird shots they took with their compact cameras in situations where they would not have been able to carry their DSLR and/or would not have had time to get their DSLR ready! The best superzoom bridge cameras have reasonably fast autofocus, manual as well as autofocus lenses, image stabilization in the lens, excellent light-collection ability (an f2.8 lens from 25 to 600 mm, for example), and the ability to produce pictures in the unprocessed RAW format, and have been improved through a series of models over several years. Many individual models were recommended by people. I’ve decided to purchase the newest, weather-sealed version of one of these – a Panasonic FZ300, as it happens, but other brands also have well-regarded models. A range of bridge cameras with larger, 1-inch sensors have been on the market for a couple of years now (such as the Panasonic FZ1000, and Sony and Canon also have examples). Image quality is better than with the smaller 1/2.3-inch sensors, but they are somewhat heavier, more expensive, not so good in low light, and often have zoom lenses of smaller range. It will be interesting to see how this larger-sensor bridge camera format develops in subsequent iterations of these models. But the laws of optics mean that larger sensors need larger lenses, so (no matter how the image-handling software improves) there is always a trade-off between image quality and camera size. There is no doubt that a DSLR with a telephoto lens produces the highest quality images, and this is the set-up used by all professional bird photographers. My son may well progress to a DSLR over time – I hope he does. But there do seem to be cheaper and smaller ‘superzoom bridge’ alternatives available nowadays that produce reasonable images, and allow the novice to learn about composition, exposure and so on. It would probably take me years to work out all the electronic modes of any modern camera, but I bet my son will have it sorted within a day! Thanks again to all, Steve Sent: Friday, 18 September 2015 9:28 PM Hi all My 14-year-old son, a pretty good bird-watcher, would like to get into bird photography. This would be his first camera, and I’d like some suggestions on good camera-lens combinations for him. I’m happy to go the DSLR route but don’t want to break the bank. Happy to receive suggestions or commentary off-line if preferable (and then will provide a summary of any consensus). Thanks Steve No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG – http://www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6140 / Virus Database: 4419/10658 – Release Date: 09/17/15
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I have different friends with the SX50 & 60, & from what I’ve seen of the results, in my opinion the SX60 is clearly better. I have the P900, I’m happy with it & I disagree with the step too far comments, in reasonable light, I hand hold it no problem. I agree with Peter’s comment about flight shots & manual focusing being hard on these compacts, but perhaps bloody hard or nearly impossible might be a better description. Cheers, Steve —–Original Message—– Peter Shute Sent: Monday, 21 September 2015 1:18 PM Cc: COG List; Birding-aus I’ve heard the “step too far” comment before. I’m wondering if the SX60 is as good as the SX50 when only zoomed out to the SX50’s maximum zoom. Apparently it has a higher resolution viewfinder, and my experience with the Canon S3 is that that is a very valuable thing. Sometimes just finding the bird in the viewfinder can be a challenge with an electronic viewfinder, a disadvantage I forgot to mention earlier. Peter Shute
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EVFs have come a long way recently and some are now very good ( e.g Pany GH4). Those that offer ‘focus peaking’, a technology normal on video cameras, are especially useful. On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Peter Shute < pshute@nuw.org.au> wrote:
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I’ve heard the “step too far” comment before. I’m wondering if the SX60 is as good as the SX50 when only zoomed out to the SX50’s maximum zoom. Apparently it has a higher resolution viewfinder, and my experience with the Canon S3 is that that is a very valuable thing. Sometimes just finding the bird in the viewfinder can be a challenge with an electronic viewfinder, a disadvantage I forgot to mention earlier. Peter Shute
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I’d highly recommend the Canon SX50HS (if you can still find it); the SX60HS is said to be a step too far. Quite reasonable for bird photography, or even BIF as you get more skilled. See: http://stokesbirdingblog.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/canon-sx-50-hs-for-bird-photography-i.html A bonuse is it is a good general outdoors camera and even good for some astrophotography on near objects (Moon, rings of Saturn, bands on Jupiter, star clusters) – not so good for long exposures (limited to 15 seconds); can also be hacked via CHDK for more features ( http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/SX50). Enjoy!
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I had the Canon sx10, sx40 and sx50. I agree that the SX 50 was very good for its price. I now have a Nikon P900, which is a big improvement but costs 50% more than the SX 60. The P900 has a wider lens. With other improvements it is better at taking low-light photos. It also has a nice spot zoom, useful for getting between branches to focus on a bird. It has the equivalent of 135 2000mm zoom. John Bundock 0400249429 —–Original Message—– Sent: Monday, 21 September 2015 11:16 AM Cc: Steve Read; COG List; Birding-aus I have my 3rd in the Canon SX50 series (i.e. I’ve had two earlier models) and will continuing to upgrade it with new models from time to time. It’s excellent for taking photos of birds for identification purposes because with a mono pod it pretty much doubles as a spotting scope! In addition, when not on superzoom it takes pretty good photos if you get close enough and/or are taking scenery etc. John —–Original Message—– Sent: Monday, 21 September 2015 7:31 AM Cc: Steve Read; COG List; Birding-aus I’ve found that looking at other people’s photos is often a source of frustration because people rarely say how far away they were from the bird, so you don’t know how much they’ve cropped out, and therefore don’t get an idea of the capabilities of that lens and camera combination. You can’t tell how much the equipment has contributed to the sharpness of a very sharp photo compared to the photographer’s ability or luck in getting very close to the bird. With DSLRs, I feel it’s frustrating to have anything less than a 400mm lens, and I’ve noticed that more and more people are using 500mm and even 600mm lenses. All of those lens sizes will cost several times the price of an ultra zoom compact camera, many of which will give you focal lengths equivalent to well over 1000mm. I feel you should at least investigate the ultra zooms like the Canon SX series. The SX50 has a huge following if you can still get one. The SX60 seems to have a smaller following – it has a longer zoom, but many seem to think it doesn’t give any better photos. I’ve tried neither. Apparently the SX70 will be announced this month. The compacts have many disadvantages – frustrating in low light, hard to follow birds in flight, hard to manual focus, controls harder to manipulate quickly – but win easily on price and lightness. Unless you or he know exactly what type of photography he’ll be doing – and if you did then you might not have asked the question – they might be a cheaper way to find out than upgrading through a series of bigger and bigger DSLR lenses till you do. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad
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I have my 3rd in the Canon SX50 series (i.e. I’ve had two earlier models) and will continuing to upgrade it with new models from time to time. It’s excellent for taking photos of birds for identification purposes because with a mono pod it pretty much doubles as a spotting scope! In addition, when not on superzoom it takes pretty good photos if you get close enough and/or are taking scenery etc. John —–Original Message—– Sent: Monday, 21 September 2015 7:31 AM Cc: Steve Read; COG List; Birding-aus I’ve found that looking at other people’s photos is often a source of frustration because people rarely say how far away they were from the bird, so you don’t know how much they’ve cropped out, and therefore don’t get an idea of the capabilities of that lens and camera combination. You can’t tell how much the equipment has contributed to the sharpness of a very sharp photo compared to the photographer’s ability or luck in getting very close to the bird. With DSLRs, I feel it’s frustrating to have anything less than a 400mm lens, and I’ve noticed that more and more people are using 500mm and even 600mm lenses. All of those lens sizes will cost several times the price of an ultra zoom compact camera, many of which will give you focal lengths equivalent to well over 1000mm. I feel you should at least investigate the ultra zooms like the Canon SX series. The SX50 has a huge following if you can still get one. The SX60 seems to have a smaller following – it has a longer zoom, but many seem to think it doesn’t give any better photos. I’ve tried neither. Apparently the SX70 will be announced this month. The compacts have many disadvantages – frustrating in low light, hard to follow birds in flight, hard to manual focus, controls harder to manipulate quickly – but win easily on price and lightness. Unless you or he know exactly what type of photography he’ll be doing – and if you did then you might not have asked the question – they might be a cheaper way to find out than upgrading through a series of bigger and bigger DSLR lenses till you do. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad
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I’ve found that looking at other people’s photos is often a source of frustration because people rarely say how far away they were from the bird, so you don’t know how much they’ve cropped out, and therefore don’t get an idea of the capabilities of that lens and camera combination. You can’t tell how much the equipment has contributed to the sharpness of a very sharp photo compared to the photographer’s ability or luck in getting very close to the bird. With DSLRs, I feel it’s frustrating to have anything less than a 400mm lens, and I’ve noticed that more and more people are using 500mm and even 600mm lenses. All of those lens sizes will cost several times the price of an ultra zoom compact camera, many of which will give you focal lengths equivalent to well over 1000mm. I feel you should at least investigate the ultra zooms like the Canon SX series. The SX50 has a huge following if you can still get one. The SX60 seems to have a smaller following – it has a longer zoom, but many seem to think it doesn’t give any better photos. I’ve tried neither. Apparently the SX70 will be announced this month. The compacts have many disadvantages – frustrating in low light, hard to follow birds in flight, hard to manual focus, controls harder to manipulate quickly – but win easily on price and lightness. Unless you or he know exactly what type of photography he’ll be doing – and if you did then you might not have asked the question – they might be a cheaper way to find out than upgrading through a series of bigger and bigger DSLR lenses till you do. Peter Shute Sent from my iPad
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Hi Steve, That’s a difficult question to answer. One idea is to look at the BirdLife Photography Gallery http://birdlifephotography.org.au/index.php. If you click on the image, many of them will have details of the cameras and lenses that people use for bird photography, and then you can check what’s available and what it costs. Generally with photography, you get what you pay for! If you, or your son, have a Facebook account, you could try looking for a group on bird photography and see what they say. It did come up recently on one I look at, but I don’t think it was resolved. You do need to consider his height and physic too, as if he’s slight and short, a really long lens at this stage might not be practical! I hope whatever decision you come to, your son continues to enjoy his birding, and break into bird photography. Sonja
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