Yes, everything I said was in relation to Australian birds only, so no need to discuss vultures, etc.
And I didn’t know there was a precendent for the use in a title. I guess you’re right, it’s strictly incorrect usage, but intended so that people know what the book’s about.
Peter Shute
> —–Original Message—– > From: Philip Veerman [mailto:pveerman@pcug.org.au] > Sent: Thursday, 13 January 2011 2:28 PM > To: Peter Shute > Cc: birding-aus@vicnet.net.au > Subject: RE: What is a hawk – again? > > Well about one definition for “hawk” is all those in > Accipitridae family > except the eagles? And the Osprey and the Secretarybird and vultures. > > I would say yes, but only on the basis that it is a shortening for a > long list. If it was for all the birds worldwide, it would be a longer > list. I also note the name of the classic 2 volume set by > Brown & Amadon > is “Eagles, Hawks and Falcons of the World” and note that > Hollands’ book > is “Eagles, Hawks and Falcons of Australia”. That is so close > (as in not > even changing the sequence, that I strongly suspect a bit of a copying > happening there, maybe not intentionally. After all there are already > many books called “Birds of Prey…” Not good to issue a book with an > identical title as a prior one. You could I suppose also equally say > “Osprey, Hawks and Falcons” (probably more correct as the > Osprey is more > distinct from hawks than are the eagles) or “Harriers, Hawks and > Falcons” or “Kites, Hawks and Falcons”. We have 6 Australian species > with common group name of kite and zero Australian species with common > group name of hawk. > > Either title could mean the same range of birds, in which case eagles > are just another group of hawk, which is not wrong. The fact is though > that eagles are better known as a group to average people and people > seem to associate with them. (Many countries have used eagles as their > symbol but few have used hawks). So eagles in the name is thus better > able to sell the book. And that is what matters in terms of > choosing the > title. > > Philip > > —–Original Message—– > From: Peter Shute [mailto:pshute@nuw.org.au] > Sent: Thursday, 13 January 2011 1:42 PM > To: ‘Philip Veerman’; ‘birding-aus@vicnet.net.au’ > Subject: RE: What is a hawk? > > > Yes, I should have said “and maybe White-bellied Sea-eagle”. And does > this mean that one definition for “hawk” is all those in Accipitridae > family except the eagles? > > > > > —–Original Message—– > > From: Philip Veerman [mailto:pveerman@pcug.org.au] > > Sent: Thursday, 13 January 2011 1:32 PM > > To: Peter Shute; birding-aus@vicnet.net.au > > Subject: What is a hawk? > > > > I would say yes to your question. As to list all the group > names in a > > title would be too long. Also raises the aspect (and I’m > not expert on > > this) that the Red Goshawk, Black-breasted Buzzard and > Square-tailed > > Kite are probably more closely related to each other and > not actually > > closely related to real goshawks, buzzards and kites. They are > > probably convergent with those groups. (And that is even > ignoring for > > now that Americans use the word “buzzard” for new world > vultures (that > > are closer > > related to storks) and use the word “hawk” for buzzards (Buteo). > > > > The only other point is that sea-eagles are regarded as over > > grown kites > > (and thus hawks), rather that true eagles. I don’t know the exact > > diagnosis of why that is the case other than that true eagles > > have fully > > feathered legs and sea-eagles don’t but there probably are more > > technical anatomical and chemical reasons than that. > > > > Philip > > > > —–Original Message—– > > From: birding-aus-bounces@vicnet.net.au > > [mailto:birding-aus-bounces@vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Peter Shute > > Sent: Thursday, 13 January 2011 8:27 AM > > To: ‘birding-aus@vicnet.net.au’ > > Subject: [Birding-Aus] What’s a hawk? > > > > > > I’m reading “Eagles, Hawks and Falcons” by David Hollands, and I’m > > wondering about the title. It covers all Australian diurnal > raptors, > > but he doesn’t specify which species he has classified as an > > eagle, a hawk, > > or a falcon, or even discuss the matter. > > > > If “falcons” covers the family Falconidae, and “eagles” > covers Little > > and Wedge-tailed Eagles, and White-bellied Sea-Eagle, does > that mean > > everything else is a hawk? > > > > Peter Shute > > > > = > > —– > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG – www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3375 – Release > Date: 01/12/11 > > ============================== To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request@vicnet.net.au
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