I agree with Tom. I’ve been to Christmas Island but purely to see the island’s specialties. I am interested in the various curiosities being reported but that’s all they are from my perspective – l would never go to Christmas or to Cocos to see a horde of birds that can be seen easily in south-east Asia, and generally at much less cost.
Greg
“To: “Frank O’Connor”
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Hi Frank,
I think you are missing the point regarding that comment, as exciting as Christmas and Cocos sound (I would love to go birding there!) they are not in the same faunal zone as Australia so many birders don’t see the relevance. You may as well go New Caledonia and add those species to your ‘French’ list.
Tom
> And I remember there was a comment about the possible Short-toed Eagle
> in Victoria being better than the rarities reported on Cocos and
> Christmas in December. Sorry. Not even close!!! I saw 11 new birds
> for my Australian list, and I dipped on two. Even Mike Carter added 9
> birds to his Australian list.”
>
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Maybe the problem does lie with Christidis and Boles. Their 1994 classification was titled* The Taxonomy and Species of Birds of Australia and its Territories* but come 2008 the classification became *Systematics and Taxonomy of Australian Birds*. Both are technically correct but I guess has given birders license to blurr the edges of what is “Australian”. I cannot imagine a book *Systematics and Taxonomy of British Birds* listing birds from places as diverse as Cayman Islands, Gibraltar, Diego Garcia, St Helena or Pitcairn. It would be a fascinating list though!
Chris Gregory
* * presents an up-to-date classification of Australian birds. Building on the authors’ 1994 book,
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Thanks Tony (and Mike) for clarification on those points for me. Much appreciated!
Cheers Dave
David, From memory I think Christidis and Boles does include Antarctic. However, given the fact that Antarctica is on another continent, even further away and out of reach for most it was left off the totals page. But again it is up to the individual what they wish to count on their Australian List. As for ‘mainland’ Australia – it made sense to follow the guidelines outlined by American Birding which would include the Torres Strait Islands, Tasmania and any location within the 200NM zone. So Lord Howe NSW and Macquarie Island TAS are excluded.
Regards, Tony
Legally I believe they are part of Qld – just as Lord Howe is part of NSW.
On 9 January 2011 17:40, davidstowe@optusnet.com.au wrote: Great to see a separate column on your site now Tony giving the totals without external territories. I have no problem with either sides of “the fence” and can understand both arguments, but it is interesting to have it split. I know i won’t be in a position to get there any time soon so its great to be able to compare totals on a more level field.
I know this has probably been discussed before, but why isn’t Australian Antarctic territory able to be counted?
Also are Boigu and Sabai counted in the separation into territories or are they “mainland” Australia? I must confess I find it amusing how close they are to mainland PNG! Sorry – not wanting to open another can, but i am genuinely curious.
Cheers David Stowe
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David, given the fact that Antarctica is on another continent, even further away and out of reach for most it was left off the totals page. But again it is up to the individual what they wish to count on their Australian List. As for ‘mainland’ Australia – it made sense to follow the guidelines outlined by American Birding which would include the Torres Strait Islands, Tasmania and any location within the 200NM zone. So Lord Howe NSW and Macquarie Island TAS are excluded.
Regards, Tony
Legally I believe they are part of Qld – just as Lord Howe is part of NSW. On 9 January 2011 17:40, davidstowe@optusnet.com.au wrote: Great to see a separate column on your site now Tony giving the totals without external territories. I have no problem with either sides of “the fence” and can understand both arguments, but it is interesting to have it split. I know i won’t be in a position to get there any time soon so its great to be able to compare totals on a more level field.
I know this has probably been discussed before, but why isn’t Australian Antarctic territory able to be counted?
Also are Boigu and Sabai counted in the separation into territories or are they “mainland” Australia? I must confess I find it amusing how close they are to mainland PNG! Sorry – not wanting to open another can, but i am genuinely curious.
Cheers David Stowe
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That sounds like an improvement, it’ll be interesting to see how many people supply both counts.
Can anyone tell me when people started including the territories in their totals? Did anyone ever include New Guinea, which was a territory not all that long ago (1975)?
I’m not going to argue one way or the other whether territories should be included in counts, but if they’re “our” territories, then we’re responsible for the welfare of the wildlife on them, which certainly justifies at least checking what’s there.
Peter Shute
________________________________________ href=”mailto:birding-aus-bounces@vicnet.net.au”>birding-aus-bounces@vicnet.net.au [birding-aus-bounces@vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Tony Palliser [tonyp@bigpond.net.au] Sent: Sunday, 9 January 2011 1:37 PM href=”mailto:birding-aus@vicnet.net.au”>birding-aus@vicnet.net.au
To make our listing game a little more interesting I have enhanced the totals page recently to include mainland totals – just for fun of course.
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Legally I believe they are part of Qld – just as Lord Howe is part of NSW.
On 9 January 2011 17:40, davidstowe@optusnet.com.au < davidstowe@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
href=”mailto:birding-aus-request@vicnet.net.au”>birding-aus-request@vicnet.net.au href=”mailto:birding-aus-request@vicnet.net.au”>birding-aus-request@vicnet.net.au ===============================
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Great to see a separate column on your site now Tony giving the totals without external territories. I have no problem with either sides of “the fence” and can understand both arguments, but it is interesting to have it split. I know i won’t be in a position to get there any time soon so its great to be able to compare totals on a more level field.
I know this has probably been discussed before, but why isn’t Australian Antarctic territory able to be counted?
Also are Boigu and Sabai counted in the separation into territories or are they “mainland” Australia? I must confess I find it amusing how close they are to mainland PNG! Sorry – not wanting to open another can, but i am genuinely curious.
Cheers David Stowe
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For many birding is a listing game (myself included) and even though Cocos and Christmas is a long way from the mainland many like to include species from such localities on their lists as they are part of Australia and furthermore they are fantastic places to visit. Naturally if you are a world lister chances are you would be better off visiting another country but others would argue that it is more exciting to find a rarity in your own country or territory than to see birds that are just ticks overseas (many of which will be forgotten not long after seeing them).
Some of us like to maintain world lists, country lists, state lists, family lists, year lists etc, so it is all a matter of what you are collecting as an individual. The positive side to Cocos and Christmas Island is that (a) they are including within our Christidis and Boles checklist (b) It has greatly increased our knowledge and awareness of the wildlife of these areas (c) provided valuable tourism dollars for those that live there and (d) further highlighted the conservation requirements and (e) it’s a great excuse to visit places one would never normally venture to – one of the reasons in my opinion that birding is such a wonderful pastime.
Sure if a common bird which you have seen many times overseas turns up on Cocos (Common teal for example) it would be a very costly exercise to twitch it but if a once in a life time weather system is turning up lots of birds then it does become viable and a great deal of fun and finding a new bird like a European Roller for Cocos/Australia is very exciting and for me seeing a new family in some distant overseas country is just as rewarding. I reckon if you want a big Australian list and are prepared to include external territories then now is the time to consider a trip to Cocos and Christmas Islands.
That said I do agree that adding the Falklands to the British List is just not on and including Cocos and Christmas Islands is not that different, but again it does help to promote the conservation of wildlife at these localities so I remain firmly in favour of including them.
To make our listing game a little more interesting I have enhanced the totals page recently to include mainland totals – just for fun of course.
http://www.tonypalliser.com/totals.html
Regards Tony
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