Hi all,
A week or so ago I sent a note commenting on the Victorian LNP policies of shooting in National Parks. In fairness I would like to mention that the Victorian Labor Party policy is available on this subject in a document titled “Pursuing the Great Outdoors”. It seems that in the state election both parties will be promoting the protection of wetlands and the reduction of feral animals, both of which have to be good outcomes for the protection of native non-game species in Victoria.
The document is worth a read.
cheers
Jen ===============================
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Chris,
Half flush usually is sufficient. Training them to flush is the hard part, they have trouble with the buttons. The old chain-pull is best, especially if you hang a fluffy toy from the chain. I don’t think many are lost during training, mainly due to their problem with flushing. Some do get a bit damp though in the training process.
Cheers,
Carl Clifford
Carl
Intriguing to say the least. Do they use half or full flush and do you lose many during the training process!
Chris Gregory
On 16 November 2010 11:44, Carl Clifford wrote:
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Hmm, the licence to breed sounds like a good idea. I wonder if it could be extended to humans as well.
Cheers,
Carl Clifford
I am amused by the suggestion, in one sentence no less: “not mentioning desexing of all cats and having a license to breed”. I wonder, on basic biology grounds, how those two processes fit together…………. I hope I don’t need to explain.
Yes cats are a problem and I too would prefer we did not have them. But birders writing to birders is not progressing the issue much.
Philip
Carl
Intriguing to say the least. Do they use half or full flush and do you lose many during the training process!
Chris Gregory
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Peter,
Who needs litter trays? Cats can be easily trained to use human toilets, though you do have to leave the lid up.
Cheers,
Carl Clifford
No, please don’t explain, Philip. I’d also suggest that there’s no way that anywhere near 100% of the population is going to lock their cats up until someone comes up with a way to avoid having to clean out litter trays.
Peter Shute
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No, please don’t explain, Philip. I’d also suggest that there’s no way that anywhere near 100% of the population is going to lock their cats up until someone comes up with a way to avoid having to clean out litter trays.
Peter Shute
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Hey Heyn
You’re preaching to the converted!!
Forwarding your email to some cat fanciers web sites might have some sort of impact, however, I suspect the cat owners who allow their pets to run rampant probably don’t access cat web sites. Much and all as I am opposed to the ‘government/council should take responsibility’ approach it would seem to have the most potential for progress.
Cheers
Colin
On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 08:28 +1100, heyndekock@bigpond.com wrote: href=”mailto:birding-aus-request@vicnet.net.au”>birding-aus-request@vicnet.net.au
hear hear. Big dogs near us chase and can kill cassowaries esp chicks, cats don’t.
But cats kill all the smaller creatures that we are trying to encourage to live in our new yard. So we have a cat that lives indoors and only goes outside on its harness and lead so it cannot get birds, skinks etc. It is easy to teach a cat to walk with a harness – this one learned in a week though our Darwin cat took over a month. Cat enjoys watching the birds outside (sunbirds building nests outside window makes the cat turn inside out with wishing); though hatchling house geckos foolish enough to come with striking distance pay the price; adult geckos stay on the ceiling. We enjoy having a commensal mammal in the house and cats are easier to housetrain than dogs. Helen
< ')/////==< ________________________________ href="mailto:heyndekock@bigpond.com">heyndekock@bigpond.com Cc: birding-aus@vicnet.net.au Sent: Sun, 14 November, 2010 9:00:32
And should not dogs be treated the same? After all, there is considerable evidence that that species also has considerable deleterious effects on avian populations. And they present with pretty much the same injuries as cats and I imagine to pretty much the same degree.
Before I get stomped on, I love cats (to the point of paying to have 2 air-freighted to New Zealand and back 4 years later) and I like dogs. I made a decision some 10 years ago not to “keep” any pets on environmental and ethical grounds.
Carl Clifford
On 14/11/2010, at 8:28 AM, wrote:
Interesting discussion
Regarding cats, responsible cat owners need to be keep their cats inside at all times. This should be law in my opinion, not mentioning desexing of all cats and having a license to breed. This may sound harsh, but it’s best for both the native animals and the cats. Let me explain.
I am a vet working in an emergency centre and more than 95% of cats we see are as a result of them being allowed outside. They present being hit by car, being bitten by other cats/dogs, with tick paralysis etc.
The effect on wildlife is self explanatory. On a sad note most wildlife presenting with cat bites die despite treatment.
Regards Heyn
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And should not dogs be treated the same? After all, there is considerable evidence that that species also has considerable deleterious effects on avian populations. And they present with pretty much the same injuries as cats and I imagine to pretty much the same degree.
Before I get stomped on, I love cats (to the point of paying to have 2 air-freighted to New Zealand and back 4 years later) and I like dogs. I made a decision some 10 years ago not to “keep” any pets on environmental and ethical grounds.
Carl Clifford
On 14/11/2010, at 8:28 AM, birding-aus-request@vicnet.net.au
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Probably wanted to dump it and make sure it couldn’t come back home. Merrilyn
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No, but I would have thought one might if one went to that much trouble. It doesn’t sound like a random or opportunistic act.
Motivations I can think of include dumping, and restoring what they previously considered a desirable situation. You’d think think he’d drop off a pair if he wanted the latter.
Peter Shute
Do all cat lovers need reasons?
Mike =================== Michael Tarburton tarburton.m@optusnet.com.au ===================
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“BUT within a few months if my memory is correct they caught a bloke rowing out to the island with a cat on board that he planned to release on Little Barrier Island.”
I can understand the motivation for releasing pigs, etc, so you have something to shoot, but why on earth would someone bother doing that?
Peter Shute
G’day Birding-Ausers
You could do what the Kiwis have done:
Case 1. Massey Univ. wanted to set up a study area without any deer. They built the fence, called it an exclosure, then hired a deer hunter to eliminate all the deer inside. After a few weeks he claimed he had. They hired a second deer shooter & he got ten or more, then a third who got about five, then a fourth who got two or three. The area was then ready for natives only.
Case 2. The NZ environment department wanted all cats off Little Barrier Island to protect some seabirds that were becoming rare, and so it would be safe to place some rare landbirds on the island as an insurance policy. They got the army out ,and then the gun clubs, and then a cat virus. In the end it worked. BUT within a few months if my memory is correct they caught a bloke rowing out to the island with a cat on board that he planned to release on Little Barrier Island.
Takes all types: & looks as if a range of methods can work.
Cheers
Mike
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Jen,
NSW allows a certain amount of shooting in State Forests, supposedly in order to control pest species. There is growing evidence that certain hunters have been capturing feral pigs and goats from the western parts of the state releasing them (illegally, of course) into coastal forests, as it seems that there are insufficient numbers of ferals to keep them amused. Consequently, we now have feral species back in areas which have been pretty much clear of them.
I don’t imagine that Victorian hunters will be any less resourceful. After all, if the hunters clean out the feral species from National Parks and State Forests, what are they going to do to keep themselves amused ? I suppose we could send them to somewhere like Afghanistan, bur they probably wouldn’t like a prey that can shoot back. That is a whole different ball game.
Cheers,
Carl Clifford
Hi all,
A week or so ago I sent a note commenting on the Victorian LNP policies of shooting in National Parks. In fairness I would like to mention that the Victorian Labor Party policy is available on this subject in a document titled “Pursuing the Great Outdoors”. It seems that in the state election both parties will be promoting the protection of wetlands and the reduction of feral animals, both of which have to be good outcomes for the protection of native non-game species in Victoria.
The document is worth a read.
cheers
Jen ===============================
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May I offer one general comment re shooting in national parks?
The aim of park management is (or should be) to eradicate non-native animals. Private hunters may well have a vested interest in maintaining a feral population. And even those who are sympathetic to n park principles are unlikely to persist in hunting down the last few individuals.
Syd
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