Hello all I think we need to be careful in assuming that orange legs and feet on Pacific Black Ducks indicate hybridisation with Mallards. Brighter orange legs is an indication of breeding condition in Black Ducks so we need to consider other morphological indicators of hybridisation such as: ♂ has curled central tail feathers and variable white feathers in tail, reduced facial stripes, warmer tones to breast feathers, the suggestion of a pale collar (not white) and orange-yellow legs and feet. ♀ resembles an abnormally dark ♀ mallard with orange-yellow legs and feet. As Mike says, feral Mallards are very rare in Australia and confirmed hybrids are almost unknown, in contrast to New Zealand where hybridisation is of real concern. Peter Menkhorst —–Original Message—– From: Mike Carter [mailto:pterodroma@bigpond.com] Sent: Friday, 4 July 2014 12:30 PM To: Nikolas Haass; Jim Tate; Kev Lobotomi; Russell Woodford; birding-aus@birding-aus.org Cc: Peter Menkhorst Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Duck A rather late entry to this debate. I have no doubt that Russell’s bird was of feral origin, a hybrid farm-yard type duck. But the increasing occurrence of bright orange feet in otherwise ‘perfect’ Pacific Black Ducks south-east of Melbourne is surprising, difficult to explain and perhaps of some concern. Not so long ago I would count an orange-footed bird as a Shoveler but can no longer rely on that as an ID feature as more Black Ducks now show it. Surprising because Pacific Black Ducks are abundant, Mallard are extremely rare and the larger free flying farm-yard ducks very uncommon. As an illustration I took the attached shot showing Black Duck with orange feet on one of our recent surveys on a wetland SE of Melbourne. I realise that some individuals have brighter feet than others but it seems to me that the brightness and frequency of orange feet in Black Ducks is increasing. Mike Carter 30 Canadian Bay Road Mount Eliza VIC 3930 Tel (03) 9787 7136 —– Original Message —– From: “Nikolas Haass” <n.haass1@uq.edu.au> To: “Jim Tate” <jim@tate-tate.us>; “Kev Lobotomi” <kevlobotomi@hotmail.com>; “Russell Woodford” <rdwoodford@gmail.com>; <birding-aus@birding-aus.org> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Duck Hi, Why N America and not Europe or N Asia? I don’t remember a difference between Gadwalls across these continents regarding their speculum pattern? Overall jizz, head shape, facial pattern, bill colour, bill shape and speculum pattern don’t match that of a Gadwall but rather match that of the Mallard complex. Gadwall has a sharply defined black and white speculum very unlike that of the hybrid mutant monster in question. Thus, I don’t think that Gadwall is part of this mix. Having said this, it is well documented in the literature that the off spring of two duck species (I.e. Tufted Duck x Common Pochard can look like Lesser Scaup plus many more examples; see Randler 2001 or Gillham & Gillham 1996) can look much more similar to a third species than to either of the parents. This certainly complicates the ID of hybrid waterfowl. Anyway, I am pretty sure that this bird is a human-influenced mutant on top of the hybridisation issue. Therefore my ID ‘barnyard-type” Pacific Black Duck x Mallard hybrid. Nikolas From: Jim Tate <jim@tate-tate.usjim@tate-tate.us>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Duck Probably beyond the Pale, but in N America the speculum would look like a Gadwall. -TATE ——– Original Message ——– Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Duck From: Kev Lobotomi <kevlobotomi@hotmail.comkevlobotomi@hotmail.com>> Date: Fri, June 20, 2014 9:19 pm Hi all I would agree with the hybrid bit, but I reckon there’s a chance there’s Hardhead in it! The bill is very Hardhead shaped, with colour a bit like Hardhead too, dark grey base with a pale terminal third of the tip. Also wing pattern a bit odd for Mallard/Black Duck. Not too much iridescence there & a slight whitish wingbar (more like a Hardhead). I’ve heard that Mallard males are very randy & may mate with anything. Perhaps a male mated with a Hardhead & produced this? With ducks, I’ve also heard that many ducks, even those not in the same genus can hybridize & produce young. Whether something like this would be fertile, would be very unlikely I would imagine. Is there anyone out there who can enlighten us with knowledge that is better than the “I’ve heard” stage of information I’d be most interested. These pond ducks usually bore the hell out of me, but this bird looks a bit interesting.-Kevin Bartram > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 09:53:20 +1000 > From: rdwoodford@gmail.comrdwoodford@gmail.com> > To: birding-aus@birding-aus.orgbirding-aus@birding-aus.org> > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Duck > > Hi everyone > > This bird got my pulse racing this morning. Viewed through a cheap par > of bins I keep in the kitchen, I was starting to dream of all those > northern hemisphere possibilities. When I got down to the beach with > my camera, I found I was looking at either a female Mallard, or a > Pacific Black Duck x Mallard hybrid. Can anyone tell me which it is? > The orange feet suggest Mallard, but there is a hint of the upturned > tail feathers diagnostic of male Mallard, so perhaps it is a male hybrid? > > Russell Woodford > Limeburners Lagoon, Corio > > PS If you can see this image, then it’s OK to post images to > Birding-Aus, as long as you keep them under about 1Mb _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
David makes a good point and let’s hope his reasoning remains true. But there have been several introduced bird species in Australia that had restricted distributions and abundances for decades, even longer, followed by population explosions and range expansions as a result of favourable changes in their environment and/or improved adaptation to Australian conditions. There is always a risk of this happening with the Mallard. Stephen Ambrose Ryde NSW —–Original Message—– Sent: Sunday, 6 July 2014 6:19 PM Cc: Greg and Val Clancy; < birding-aus@birding-aus.org> Frith, in “Waterfowl in Australia”, states that Mallards and Mallard hybrids are common in city parks and gardens, some country towns and occasionally in the wild. While Mallards haven’t acclimatised to the same extent as they have in New Zealand, Frith was concerned that the Pacific Black Duck would cease to exist as a species and would be replaced by Mallards and hybrids. Almost 50 years after Frith expressed those concerns, Mallards and hybrids still seem to be restricted to cities and some country towns. Perhaps their more sedentary nature and Australia’s variable climate have combined to prevent wider distribution. Cheers David Sent from my iPad wrote: for resources. the with Black at the problem with little or no effect. Mallards, generally paired. plentiful! _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Frith, in “Waterfowl in Australia”, states that Mallards and Mallard hybrids are common in city parks and gardens, some country towns and occasionally in the wild. While Mallards haven’t acclimatised to the same extent as they have in New Zealand, Frith was concerned that the Pacific Black Duck would cease to exist as a species and would be replaced by Mallards and hybrids. Almost 50 years after Frith expressed those concerns, Mallards and hybrids still seem to be restricted to cities and some country towns. Perhaps their more sedentary nature and Australia’s variable climate have combined to prevent wider distribution. Cheers David Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Even if significant contamination of the Pacific Black Duck (PCB) gene pool through hybridisation with the Mallard does or does not occur, if the Mallard substantially increases its Australian range and/or abundance, it could still impact significantly on PCBs through competition for resources. Braithwaite & Miller (1975) raised that concern in relation to prolonged droughts when the number and size of wetlands are reduced and competition between the two species potentially increased. Braithwaite, L.W. & Miller, B. (1975). The mallard, Anas platyrhynchos, and mallard-black duck, Anas superciliosa rogersi, hybridization. Australian Wildlife Research 2: 47-61. Stephen Ambrose Ryde NSW —–Original Message—– Greg and Val Clancy Sent: Sunday, 6 July 2014 10:24 AM Haass’; ‘Jim Tate’; ‘Russell Woodford’; birding-aus@birding-aus.org During the late 1970s or early 1980s a officer form the Conservation Department (not sure of name), based in Wellington New Zealand, visited Australia and I met him in Grafton. He was here to warn us Aussies of the impending threat posed by the introduced Mallard based on the New Zealand experience, which has been disastrous. I was very concerned as I had observed hybrids in Sydney and had observed Mallards associating with Black Ducks in the Grafton area. I have a from a desk calendar on my office which reads “The best way to solve problems is not to create them” so I thought that it would be best to nip the Mallards in the bud. I wrote to the National Parks & Wildlife Service alerting them to the issue. The response from a senior researcher who had carried out research on waterfowl for many years was that as the gene pool of the Pacific Black Duck in Australia was very large the chances of significant disruption from a small number of Mallard genes was very unlikely. So in her opinion there was no problem. I disagreed with her but without any co-ordinated effort at that time Mallard hybrids have increased. It seems to be a human foible that we don’t want to do anything about a problem until it is so large that we can’t effectively do anything anyway and then then we throw millions of dollars at the problem with little or no effect. Regards Greg Dr Greg. P. Clancy Ecologist and Birding-wildlife Guide | PO Box 63 Coutts Crossing NSW 2460 | 02 6649 3153 | 0429 601 960 http://www.gregclancyecologistguide.com http://gregswildliferamblings.blogspot.com.au/ —–Original Message—– Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 3:21 PM Tate’ ; ‘Russell Woodford’ ; birding-aus@birding-aus.org Just a small addition to this discussion – particularly the record Nikolas contributed: I have undertaken close to 50 Atlas surveys at Warriewood (Sydney Northern Beaches NSW) in recent years and while pure Mallards are occasionally on the Warriewood Wetlands reserve and the settlement ponds, they seem to be much more common and resident along Mullet Creek between the Wetlands and Narrabeen Lagoon. These appear to be pure Mallards, generally paired. There are of course plenty of Pacific Blacks on both the Wetlands and the Creek so the opportunities for an enthusiastic Mallard Drake are plentiful! I have certainly recorded what I considered to be good hybrids. Mind you there are other mixed feral hybrids occasionally which could confuse the issue (Muscovy, Chinese Whites, Khaki Campbell etc). They could certainly do with a clean out. Best to all Graeme Stevens would go after them. _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
I sent my earlier email before completing one sentence. It should have read I have a clipping from a desk calendar on my office wall which reads “The best way to solve problems is not to create them”. Greg —–Original Message—– Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 3:21 PM Tate’ ; ‘Russell Woodford’ ; birding-aus@birding-aus.org Just a small addition to this discussion – particularly the record Nikolas contributed: I have undertaken close to 50 Atlas surveys at Warriewood (Sydney Northern Beaches NSW) in recent years and while pure Mallards are occasionally on the Warriewood Wetlands reserve and the settlement ponds, they seem to be much more common and resident along Mullet Creek between the Wetlands and Narrabeen Lagoon. These appear to be pure Mallards, generally paired. There are of course plenty of Pacific Blacks on both the Wetlands and the Creek so the opportunities for an enthusiastic Mallard Drake are plentiful! I have certainly recorded what I considered to be good hybrids. Mind you there are other mixed feral hybrids occasionally which could confuse the issue (Muscovy, Chinese Whites, Khaki Campbell etc). They could certainly do with a clean out. Best to all Graeme Stevens _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Greg, spot on! Denise Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow PO Box 71 Darwin River, NT, Australia 0841 PhD candidate goodfellow@bigpond.com.au Founding Member: Ecotourism Australia Founding Member: Australian Federation of Graduate Women Northern Territory 043 8650 835 On 6 Jul 2014, at 9:54 am, Greg and Val Clancy < gclancy@tpg.com.au> wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
During the late 1970s or early 1980s a officer form the Conservation Department (not sure of name), based in Wellington New Zealand, visited Australia and I met him in Grafton. He was here to warn us Aussies of the impending threat posed by the introduced Mallard based on the New Zealand experience, which has been disastrous. I was very concerned as I had observed hybrids in Sydney and had observed Mallards associating with Black Ducks in the Grafton area. I have a from a desk calendar on my office which reads “The best way to solve problems is not to create them” so I thought that it would be best to nip the Mallards in the bud. I wrote to the National Parks & Wildlife Service alerting them to the issue. The response from a senior researcher who had carried out research on waterfowl for many years was that as the gene pool of the Pacific Black Duck in Australia was very large the chances of significant disruption from a small number of Mallard genes was very unlikely. So in her opinion there was no problem. I disagreed with her but without any co-ordinated effort at that time Mallard hybrids have increased. It seems to be a human foible that we don’t want to do anything about a problem until it is so large that we can’t effectively do anything anyway and then then we throw millions of dollars at the problem with little or no effect. Regards Greg Dr Greg. P. Clancy Ecologist and Birding-wildlife Guide | PO Box 63 Coutts Crossing NSW 2460 | 02 6649 3153 | 0429 601 960 http://www.gregclancyecologistguide.com http://gregswildliferamblings.blogspot.com.au/ —–Original Message—– Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 3:21 PM Tate’ ; ‘Russell Woodford’ ; birding-aus@birding-aus.org Just a small addition to this discussion – particularly the record Nikolas contributed: I have undertaken close to 50 Atlas surveys at Warriewood (Sydney Northern Beaches NSW) in recent years and while pure Mallards are occasionally on the Warriewood Wetlands reserve and the settlement ponds, they seem to be much more common and resident along Mullet Creek between the Wetlands and Narrabeen Lagoon. These appear to be pure Mallards, generally paired. There are of course plenty of Pacific Blacks on both the Wetlands and the Creek so the opportunities for an enthusiastic Mallard Drake are plentiful! I have certainly recorded what I considered to be good hybrids. Mind you there are other mixed feral hybrids occasionally which could confuse the issue (Muscovy, Chinese Whites, Khaki Campbell etc). They could certainly do with a clean out. Best to all Graeme Stevens _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Just a small addition to this discussion – particularly the record Nikolas contributed: I have undertaken close to 50 Atlas surveys at Warriewood (Sydney Northern Beaches NSW) in recent years and while pure Mallards are occasionally on the Warriewood Wetlands reserve and the settlement ponds, they seem to be much more common and resident along Mullet Creek between the Wetlands and Narrabeen Lagoon. These appear to be pure Mallards, generally paired. There are of course plenty of Pacific Blacks on both the Wetlands and the Creek so the opportunities for an enthusiastic Mallard Drake are plentiful! I have certainly recorded what I considered to be good hybrids. Mind you there are other mixed feral hybrids occasionally which could confuse the issue (Muscovy, Chinese Whites, Khaki Campbell etc). They could certainly do with a clean out. Best to all Graeme Stevens _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Hi all! Although Mallards fortunately aren’t that common in Australia, we can’t be too complacent about there presence. One thing I have noticed is that many Mallards that I see on ornamental ponds are males (so definitely not a population!), but since they are males they tend to get randy & if they have nothing but black ducks to chase I am sure they would go after them. So the chance of hybrids is quite high! All efforts should be made to remove these birds, so they don’t pollute the native ducks with their genes!-Kevin Bartram _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
There is a population of Mallard-Pacific Black Duck hybrids at Goulds Lagoon, or there was when I visited in March 2008. There is also a small flock of Mallard-Pacific Black Duck hybrids on Lord Howe Island. If I remember correctly, the existence of the Goulds Lagoon hybrids was documented in a local birding guide. My photograph of the Goulds Lagoon hybrids is at 126047386@N08/” >https://www.flickr.com/photos/126047386@N08/ Cheers David _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Hi, If anyone is interested, here’s a link to a shot I took on April 2012 of some of the strange ducks at Warriewood that Nikolas was referring to: https://www.flickr.com/photos/boombana/7628515488/ The bird on the left had orange legs. They do appear to be somewhat of a fixture at Warriewood as I have seen them subsequently. Cheers, Greg McLachlan On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Jenny Stiles < jstiles@optusnet.com.au> wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Hi, We saw an adult Pacific Black Duck hybrid at Warriewood Wetlands on the 4th May 2014. I do have some fairly poor photos as the duck swam away as some children on bikes disturbed all the birds just as we noticed the duck. From Jenny Stiles —–Original Message—– Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 2:32 PM Lobotomi’ ; ‘RussellWoodford’ ; birding-aus@birding-aus.org O.K. Here we go: On the 27th July 2008 I saw a female Pacific Black Duck x Mallard hybrid with 9 downy chicks (i.e. F2 generation; don’t know who the father was though) at Warriewood. I hope that we have photos. Nikolas A/Prof Nikolas Haass | Head, Experimental Melanoma Therapy Group The University of Queensland Diamantina Institute Level 6 | Translational Research Institute | 37 Kent Street | Woolloongabba QLD 4102 T: +61 (0)7 3443 7087 | M: +61 (0)424 603 579 F: +61 (0)7 3443 6966 E: n.haass1@uq.edu.au | W: http://www.di.uq.edu.au …Turning scientific discoveries into better treatments… CRICOS Code 00025B This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain private or confidential information. If you are not the intended addressee, you must take no action based on it, nor show a copy to anyone. Kindly notify the sender by reply email. Opinions and information in this email which do not relate to the official business of The University of Queensland shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by the University On 4/07/14 2:22 PM, “Nikolas Haass” < n.haass1@uq.edu.au> wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
O.K. Here we go: On the 27th July 2008 I saw a female Pacific Black Duck x Mallard hybrid with 9 downy chicks (i.e. F2 generation; don’t know who the father was though) at Warriewood. I hope that we have photos. Nikolas A/Prof Nikolas Haass | Head, Experimental Melanoma Therapy Group The University of Queensland Diamantina Institute Level 6 | Translational Research Institute | 37 Kent Street | Woolloongabba QLD 4102 T: +61 (0)7 3443 7087 | M: +61 (0)424 603 579 F: +61 (0)7 3443 6966 E: n.haass1@uq.edu.au | W: http://www.di.uq.edu.au …Turning scientific discoveries into better treatments… CRICOS Code 00025B This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain private or confidential information. If you are not the intended addressee, you must take no action based on it, nor show a copy to anyone. Kindly notify the sender by reply email. Opinions and information in this email which do not relate to the official business of The University of Queensland shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by the University On 4/07/14 2:22 PM, “Nikolas Haass” < n.haass1@uq.edu.au> wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Hi Peter & Mike, That’s interesting. I am pretty sure that I had ‘classic’ Pacific Black Duck x Mallard hybrids at Warriewood (Sydney) a few years ago. Will check if I have documentation. Best wishes, Nikolas A/Prof Nikolas Haass | Head, Experimental Melanoma Therapy Group The University of Queensland Diamantina Institute Level 6 | Translational Research Institute | 37 Kent Street | Woolloongabba QLD 4102 T: +61 (0)7 3443 7087 | M: +61 (0)424 603 579 F: +61 (0)7 3443 6966 E: n.haass1@uq.edu.au | W: http://www.di.uq.edu.au …Turning scientific discoveries into better treatments… CRICOS Code 00025B This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain private or confidential information. If you are not the intended addressee, you must take no action based on it, nor show a copy to anyone. Kindly notify the sender by reply email. Opinions and information in this email which do not relate to the official business of The University of Queensland shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by the University On 4/07/14 1:03 PM, “Peter Menkhorst” < pmenk@bigpond.net.au> wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org