Observed a pair of falcons at Gunnamatta Ocean Beach (Victoria) on Tuesday, but can’t decide if they were Australian Hobby or Peregrine Falcon.
Photos can be viewed at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9k20m0ybd9fp03b/s-fJW_Ywyb
*Neil Shelley* ===============================
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Thanks to everyone for their feedback. The unanimous decision was Peregrine Falcon.
Interestingly, three people observed the falcons: the photographer went for Australian Hobby; I went for Peregrine Falcon; the other was noncommittal, not having had good views of the birds.
I did consult several field guides (Debus 2nd ed. and Czechura & Field), but still wasn’t certain – thus my posting on Birding Aus.
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Hi all,
As the person who generated this discussion, albeit unintentionally, I would like to say that Tom raised an important point. I agree with Tom that it is important for the more experienced birdos to provide reasons why they have identified a bird as a particular species. I believe that I usually do this but in the case of the falcon I just gave an opinion, which as Philip stated, is all that was asked for. When I was a novice birder I had very few experienced people that I could learn from and I only had a very old copy of ‘What Bird is That?’ by Neville W. Cayley to help me. It forced me teach myself to identify the local birds. As time went on I did meet some wonderful ornithologists who passed on their experience to me, although Bill Lane used to say that I had learnt all of my bad habits before he met me! Field guides are now a far cry from the early days of Cayley and Leach but they are not fool proof. I commend Neil for asking the question. I sometimes meet people with limited birding experience who are very confident because they have the field guide. Sometimes this confidence is misplaced. Keep asking the questions and I am sure that the more experienced birdos will assist you. I, for one, will be a little more informative in the future than I was today.
A few people have discussed how to distinguish an Australian Hobby from a Peregrine Falcon, and it is not always easy to do so in the field. The Peregrine is a larger and more bulky looking species with relatively shorter and broader wings and a shorter tail. Females are larger and have a very extensive white chest. Males have a white chest also but not as extensive as in the female. Hobbies are generally rufous underneath with only a small amount of white on the chest and throat which is not very obvious. The Peregrines black cap appears more complete and the pale crescent on the side of the neck is more extensive in the Hobby. Large female Hobbies can look, at first, like Peregrines. A group of falcon experts was observing a falcon approaching swiftly and all considered it to be a Peregrine but as it passed overhead it was clearly a large female Hobby (I hope that I have quoted this accurately but that is the gist of the story). The point is that even the experts can get it wrong if a bird is seen only briefly or in poor conditions. Questioning and discussion is healthy. Digital photos are great because they allow the bird to be viewed repeatedly and not just once as it disappears into the distance.
Thanks Tom for the reminder to be more informative and thanks Philip for identifying that it takes time and effort to respond to these enquiries and it is not always possible to give them much time and effort.
Regards
Greg Dr Greg. P. Clancy Ecologist and Birding-wildlife Guide PO Box 63 Coutts Crossing NSW 2460 0266493153 0429601960
Hi Paul,
Your comments are all fine and true. However I humbly suggest (not knowing the situation of either of them) that Tom was taking a bit of a presumptive liberty in suggesting what time and finger power that Greg has available and what he should do with it. I don’t know what time and finger power Greg has available. The original question just asked what and did not ask why. Why just Greg? Why not be more positive and address the message to Anthea instead, to thank her for adding a bit of information? I could easily write about how that bird can be identified from the photo, but although one or two of the photos (alone) may still have been somewhat difficult, as a series, from the bird’s shape, body proportions, tail shape and length as well as the completely diagnostic white throat and dark hood, it is an easy call. These things are available from books and all answers received were the same, so there is nothing to debate. Yes to have an expert in the field describe the process that they use to identify a tern from a photograph is incredibly helpful and by all means ask for help, but books exist for a reason and should be a first point of call. Referring people to field guides is not an action contrary to helping them. It is setting them up to be better able to do this next time.
The issue about the recent gull is different, as that is much more difficult and some would say it matters for the record as to what it is. In this case, very likely both raptor species are to be expected at that site.
I see that you have also sent this to B-A and only for that reason I will respond. I sure hope this does not develop into another tedious discussion.
Philip
Hi everyone,
I have to say I feel exactly the same as Paul. At least to me, there is a huge difference between personal experience and knowledge you gain by reading books. For example size and shape differences (i.e. jizz) do not show very clearly in the field guides and usually one needs to see enough e.g. both of two similar species to start to understand the subtle differences between them, which on the other hand would seem very clear to an experienced birder.
I have a saying that I keep repeating to birders: “Remember that we have all been beginners once.” With that I mean we all needed to practise our skills at some point to learn the art of birding. And I’m pretty sure we all appreciated the help from more experienced birders. For example, in my teenage years, I remember struggling over the identification of Goshawk and Sparrowhawk, Buzzards, Hobby and Peregrine(!), different waders of all ages, different sounds and songs, gulls etc. Now those things seem fairly easy and straightforward to me, but I needed to see enough of them to start to spot the differences.
I have learned a lot from more experienced birders in my youth, and now that I’m one of the more experienced ones, I am more than happy to help people by e.g. pointing out ID details when I can.
By the way, here is what I answered directly to Neil (didn’t remember to use the “reply to all” feature):
“Hi Neil,
To my opinion, the bird is definitely a Peregrine.
Note the stocky body and broad wings, and that you can’t really see any rufous coloring on the underside plumage. There are also differences in the color and the shape of the black hood. If one hasn’t seen a lot of them, they tend to be tricky to tell apart, but along with some experience one starts to notice the difference in the jizz even from afar.
Cheers from Finland, -Harry”
2013/1/31 Paul Dodd
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I could not agree less with you on this, Philip. Yes, field guides DO show the differences between species and often highlight the differences between them. However, it is often the subtle or, at least, not immediately obvious differences that are diagnostic. I, for instance, really enjoy the debate and discussion on gull and tern ID as I believe that by following this discussion it allows me to build my knowledge and will give me the ability to participate in these discussions in the future. Anyone can look up a field guide and see that there *are* differences between Common, Arctic and White-fronted Terns, for example, but to have an expert in the field describe the process that they use to identify a tern from a photograph is incredibly helpful. In the case of an Australian Hobby and a Peregrine Falcon the differences may be more pronounced, but it is no less valuable to hear an expert point out the key ID features – furthermore, we may have absolutely no idea of the level of expertise of the people that are requesting assistance with ID, so to help them out with the key features to look for is beneficial both to them, and to others reading birding-aus that may have similar questions. One of the things that people refer to often about birding-aus subscribers is their generosity in providing information when requested – let’s not kill that off by referring people to field guides instead of helping them.
Paul Dodd Docklands, Victoria
Greg,
It might be a bit more helpful to the list if you elaborate why you reach that conclusion….
Tom
White on upper breast up to throat – Peregrines. Aust. Hobby has only a small ‘shirt-collar’ white marking and rufous-brown breast right up to throat as a rule, and wings are not so broad at base. Peregrines used to seen quite often at Cape Schanck and I hope they are still around.
Anthea Fleming
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Yes, I agree with Greg – Peregrine Falcon.
Cheers,
Steve Sass Principal Ecologist EnviroKey
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They are Peregrine Falcons.
Greg Dr Greg. P. Clancy Ecologist and Birding-wildlife Guide PO Box 63 Coutts Crossing NSW 2460 0266493153 0429601960