Hi Mike,
I wouldn’t count your egg/chickens/egrets just yet – from what I recall, the reversal was based on the unclear relationship between the American population and the Eurasian and Australasian populations, plus clearly defining the ranges. /Modesta/ and /alba/ were seen to be clearly different from the work done in the original paper splitting them, but there still remains the faint possibility that they are a ring species with the American birds being the cline between the two. I saw that they were expecting a three-way split, but it required analysis of the relation ship of /modesta/ and /alba/ to /egretta/.before proceeding. Cheers,
Tony
On 15/06/2012 10:12, Mike Carter wrote: > A report from Cocos yesterday that there is a Great Egret on the atoll > reminded me that this is another change. Our bird is no longer Eastern > Great Egret as that split has been reversed, not unexpectedly I > suggest. I agree with Frank O’Connor that Western Fieldwren is another > that will one day be reversed especially as the man whom it was named > after doesn’t believe it! I think that when you dig deeply Paul, you > will continue to find more changes. When the task is finished please > share it with us in an easily digested format as you are quite right, > many of us are interested. You will need to set an end-date for changes. > > I also wondered why you mentioned only Western and not also Northern > Shriketit as possible future splits. Of interest to me as I have seen > the former but not the latter. Other potential splits include the > Norfolk Island Golden Whistler, the Figbirds (N & S), some of the > Sittellas and the recently discussed Masked Lapwing and Spur-winged > Plover. > > And thanks for not damning my error – I of course meant Yellow-browed > not Yellow-crowned Warbler. > > Mike Carter > 30 Canadian Bay Road > Mount Eliza VIC 3930 > Tel (03) 9787 7136 > > > —– Original Message —– From: “Paul G Dodd” > To: “‘Mike Carter'” ; > Cc: “‘Tony Palliser'” ; “‘David James'” > > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 7:12 PM > Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] C&B vs IOC taxonomy > > >> Hmmm… Thanks Mike (I think!) >> >> I actually didn’t intend to act in an executive role, I actually assumed >> (obviously somewhat naively) that someone had already identified the key >> differences between C&B and IOC – presumably because I’d seen such >> analysis >> provided between Clements 6.6 and IOC 3.1 – and would have such a list >> handy. >> >> My first attempt (the “feeble” one) was produced after not much more >> than an >> hour’s work, and was based on differences I could see between an >> extract I >> did from Eremaea – nominally C&B but actually a modified Clements – >> and the >> IOC 3.1 list. >> >> I am certainly grateful to everyone that contributed to my initial >> request >> and, hopefully, I’ll be able to put together a complete list of >> differences >> between the two checklists – as at a certain date and time – as you >> pointed >> out. >> >> I must say, that given the responses to this subject, I think that this >> topic is important and of interest to a lot of us amateur >> birdwatchers out >> there. Given the support for an IOC-based list in this country, I >> think that >> many of us need a basic tool to help us convert our C&B lists to the new >> taxonomy. I appreciate that you and the other BARC representatives >> have a >> difficult job – made more so with this taxonomy in flux – I just hope >> that >> the people that have contributed to my request and myself can make the >> transition that little bit easier for the rest of us. >> >> And thank you for highlighting the other changes that I had missed – >> I will >> be sure to include thm. >> >> Paul Dodd >> Docklands, Victoria >> >> >> —–Original Message—– >> From: Mike Carter [mailto:pterodroma@bigpond.com] >> Sent: Thursday, 14 June 2012 5:49 PM >> To: paul@angrybluecat.com; birding-aus@vicnet.net.au >> Cc: Tony Palliser; David James >> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] C&B vs IOC taxonomy >> >> Splits and lumps from C & B 2008 to BARC’s Australian Checklist >> accessed on >> the web on 28 March 2012. >> >> >> >> Unfortunately Paul, you’ve caught me at a bad time as currently, I’m >> sick of >> >> taxonomists and unstable Checklists so you are about to cop a bit of a >> lashing. Only ‘slightly’ premature! >> >> >> >> Firstly, when attempting to compare a web based list with another you >> need >> to specify a date and perhaps even a time! They are that unstable. >> >> >> >> Today dealing with a BARC case of NZ Storm-Petrel I had to change the >> genus >> from Oceanites to Fregetta having recently changed it from >> Pealeornis! And >> the other day when making a case for Edible-nest Swiftlet found numerous >> changes to swiftlet taxonomy. It makes for a lot of work; all of it >> tedious >> and much of it unnecessary. >> >> >> >> It seems to me that you must be in an executive position. Although >> you’re >> the one interested in knowing what the changes are, you seem good at >> getting >> >> the rest of us to investigate it for you. I think you’ll agree that your >> first attempt was a bit feeble. >> >> >> >> In addition to the additional changes already raised by others, I >> think you >> also missed the following but you will need to check, and I doubt >> that these >> >> complete the changes: >> >> >> >> Snares Penguin, split again from Fiordland. >> >> Northern Rockhopper Penguin, split from Rockhopper now Southern. >> >> Royal Penguin split from Macaroni. >> >> Heard Island Shag split from Imperial. >> >> Macquarie Shag similarly. >> >> There are now two Emerald Doves, Pacific and Common. >> >> Morepork, the Norfolk Island Boobook. >> >> Frilled Monarch a New Guinea species is included I’d like to think >> because >> the bird we saw some years ago on Boigu Island in Torres Strait has been >> accepted as it was by Dick Schodde, but I suspect is an error meant >> to be >> Frill-necked Monarch. >> >> >> >> If you maintain a world list you may need to investigate which name >> changes >> indicate a taxonomic change. Such as Tri-coloured Grebe, formerly Little >> Grebe, ‘Oriental’ Dollarbird, Canary and Ashy-bellied White-eyes, >> Pacific >> Koel, Great Crested Tern, Parasitic Jaeger, etc. etc. Also questions >> such >> as whether our domesticated Barbary Doves are really African Collared >> Doves >> as this, our list, (as I’m a member of BARC), would have us believe. >> >> >> >> The BARC IOC Supplementary List, where species reside awaiting >> acceptance >> was in error by omitting without explanation Streak-headed Mannikin. >> It was >> included in C & B 2008 on the basis of some published details, but is >> now >> complicated by taxonomic changes, wouldn’t you guess! I think that >> most of >> us personally count species seen that are on this list but normally dump >> them if not accepted. >> >> Last I looked this list needed updating to include at least the >> following >> seven species: Stejneger’s Petrel, Yellow-crowned Warbler, >> Chestnut-cheeked >> Starling, British Storm-Petrel, Asian Stubtail, Siberian Blue Robin and >> Eastern Crowned Warbler but as I said, these things change by the >> minute. >> >> >> >> Some may be alarmed to learn that among the 854 Australian species I >> count >> on the IOC list, 16 are on the Supplementary List!!!!! >> >> >> Mike Carter >> 30 Canadian Bay Road >> Mount Eliza VIC 3930 >> Tel (03) 9787 7136 >> >> >> —– Original Message —– From: “Paul G Dodd” >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 7:45 AM >> Subject: [Birding-Aus] C&B vs IOC taxonomy >> >> >>> It would appear my previous posting was slightly premature as Michael >>> Ramsay >>> has pointed out the Ground Parrot split, so here is my list of >>> differences >>> including that: >>> >>> On BARC list (based on IOC 2.9 with amendments): >> >>> Antipodean Albatross (split from Wandering Albatross) >>> Northern Royal Albatross (split from Royal Albatross – and Royal >>> Albatross >> renamed Southern Royal Albatross) >>> Campbell Albatross (split from Black-browed Albatross) >>> Salvin’s Albatross (split from Shy Albatross) >>> Chatham Albatross (split from Shy Albatross) >>> Indian Yellow-nosed Albatross (split from Yellow-nosed Albatross – and >>> Yellow-nosed Albatross renamed Atlantic Yellow-nosed Albatross) >>> Eastern Cattle Egret (split from Cattle Egret – and Cattle Egret >>> renamed >> Western Cattle Egret) >>> Red-collared Lorikeet (split from Rainbow Lorikeet) >>> Western Ground Parrot (split from Ground Parrot – and Ground Parrot >>> renamed >> Eastern Ground Parrot) >>> Western Grasswren (split from Thick-billed Grasswren) >>> Western Fieldwren (split from Rufous Fieldwren) >>> Hornbill Friarbird (split from Helmeted Friarbird) >>> Swan River Honeyeater (split from White-naped Honeyeater) >>> >>> Green-headed Yellow Wagtail lumped with Eastern Yellow Wagtail >>> >>> On IOC 3.1: >>> Western Quail-thrush (split from Chestnut-breasted Quail-thrush) >>> Nullabor Quail-thrush (split from Cinnamon Quail-thrush) >> >>> Discussed (on birding-aus at least), but not official: >>> >>> Western Shrike-tit (split from Crested Shrike-tit) >>> >>> And I believe that C&B already lumps all ringnecks into one species, >>> Australian Ringneck – which has also been adopted by IOC. >> >> > > =============================== > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request@vicnet.net.au > > http://birding-aus.org > ===============================
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