I Folks, I went night birding in Singapore last week and used a “Led Lenser” LED torch which blew me away how powerful it was. It was very bright, small and had a ridiculous beam length for its size. I can’t remember the model but I wish to get one here. Has anyone had any experience with these and can recommend an available model?? Cheers
Steve Potter p. 0407398234 e. steve@frontier.org.au
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My P17 lenser has carked it – intermittently turns on, battery compartment hard to loosen.
I have 3 of these torches and the other two have worked fine, but they’re not built as well as mag lights.
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Have just bought a LED Lenser P14 from eBay for £40 or so. We already had a P7 but the P14 is bigger and much brighter and apparently less thirsty with batteries. It came recommended from James Eaton at BirdTours Asia.
Rosemary Wales, UK
Torches, spotlights etc. do not follow the inverse square law. The Inverse Square Law only applies to light emitted from a “point” source such as a bare light bulb, a candle in a room, a star in space etc. All torches, spotlights, searchlights etc. work as they do because the light is focused into a beam by one or more lenses and/or mirrors. In a perfect (but unobtainable) system a perfectly parallel beam of light would have the same intensity at all distances, neglecting a few lesser know effects such a Rayleigh scattering and atmospheric absorption. Constraints of cost and practicality mean that what we get is an approximation to a perfect beam.
Roger.
I’ve now heard so many people swear by red filters that I’ve finally taken a look for a set. As it turns out, Led Lenser makes an inexpensive filter kit for a wide range of models, including the P7:
http://www.ledlenser.com/accessories/product/filter_set
I haven’t checked the best option for buying this in Aus. ===============================
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I sent the following email response to this topic this morning, but it seems to have disappeared into the Ethernet, so I’m sending it again. I included details of one of the Australian distributors and the price in the earlier email. Just in case that was the reason my email wasn’t posted on Birding-aus, I’ve since removed those details.
Stephen Ambrose Ryde NSW
I recently purchased a hand-held Fenix TK40, which is advertised by the retailer for use in on-ground search and rescue operations.
It is powered by eight AA batteries. It has four power settings: 630 lumens (operates for about 2 hrs at this level), 277 lumens (about 6 hrs), 93 lumens (about 20 hrs), 13 lumens (about 150 hrs). It also has strobe lighting. On the highest setting, the length of the beam was easily over 200 m, and it could have been as much as 300 m.
I’ve only used it on one recent field trip, involving 4 consecutive nights of spotlighting, but I was quite impressed with it and was more than adequate for spotlighting purposes. I found it was adequate to spotlight (for nocturnal birds) using the 277 lumens setting. You can use the high power settings for spotlighting, but use the lower settings for writing notes, sorting equipment, walking back to the car etc. But if you are also wearing a head torch (which I was), that might not be such a big deal.
It’s quite light and compact, weighing about 300 g (with batteries), is about 210 mm in length & flashlight diameter of 61 mm, and comes with a shoulder strap.
I think it adequately serves my purpose for nocturnal survey work.
Stephen Ambrose Ryde NSW
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One of the unfortunate aspects of the marketing blurb for these LED torches is the use of “lumens” as a light output rating. It is very difficult to compare a ‘lumen’ rating with a ‘candlepower’ rating which has been the usual way hand held spotlights have been rated in the past. As I understand it, lumens is best use as a rating for an unfocussed light output and candlepower is better suited for a rating of a focussed light output. As far as what we’re accustomed to in light outputs from spot lights, consider that many commonly available halogen filament spotlights are rated at over one million candlepower. No matter how you convert an output rating in lumens to an output rating in candlepower I would suggest that a spotlight with an output of a million candlepower would, more than likely, be brighter than that of a LED torch with an output of 1000 lumens. The main advantages of LED spotlights over halogen filament spotlights are in the size of the LED spotlight and the operational time between recharging of the batteries. There is definitely no price advantage in LED spotlights if the same light output is required.
Also, many car headlights have higher lumen outputs than many of the higher powered LED spotlight torches. Some of those headlights are very annoying (especially to people developing cataracts) but they don’t seem to be causing a lot of permanent damage to people’s vision.
Bob Inglis Sandstone Point Qld
Like Bob I have often had people point the finger and i would love to see some hard evidence regarding the effect. From my own personal experience lately with Owls and torches/spotlights/flashes, I have the following experiences to report. Note that of course they are anecdotal and not at all scientific Bob!
No doubt that a red light is the least intrusive to the birds.
The latest powerful white light LED torches are indeed very bright and in one instance certainly caused the owl to “squint” and the pupils were more contracted. I have seen alot of nocturnal birds lit up by torches etc and none seem to deliberately turn their head away from the light source which i would assume would be easy for them to do if it really bothered them?
Recently we watched and photographed a Masked Owl using LED torch and flash and the bird stayed on the perch for 5minutes then flew off and hovered near us then flew off effortlessly into the night. Anecdotally our “presence” didn’t seem to affect it. Scientifically i have no idea.
On Friday night Akos Lumnitzer and a couple of others and I were watching a pair of Powerful Owls and there were a few flashes plus an LED torch. When i put the red filtered spotlight on them the pupils didn’t contract at all and they were certainly not bothered. After quite a lot of photos (using flash) we were treated to an amazing experience of watching the male feed on a Ring-tailed Possum and then the female approached him and he fed her! Awesome experience watching natural and intimate behaviour which quite honestly didn’t seem affected by our presence. Having said that i am not sure that if we had shone a bright LED on them for an hour that the same could be said?? Again nothing scientific here.
The most exciting discovery of the night was that the auto focus on our Canon cameras worked flawlessly using only the ‘dim’ illumination of the red filtered Lightforce spotlight! We were amazed as it wasn’t very bright to our eyes and the light spectrum obviously aids the way the camera AF functions. I have been looking into bright LED lights for exactly this purpose (to be able to auto focus with a camera) but this revelation had altered my aims. I will still look for a brighter torch than the P7 that i own but will certainly invest in a red filter or red LED for it. For me this will be best of both worlds – effective photography with limited potential impact and the ability to light up the birds for longer periods. The WOlf-eyes red filter seems to be a screw on that can be flipped over the lens which looks like a great idea.
For an image of the pair bonding I have one on my public facebook page It was taken with two flashes (one fired remotely) and focus achieved with red light. Camera – subject distance was 20m (full frame with 500mm lens + 1.4x converter)
Cheers David Stowe
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I’m sure the inverse square law applies, but I wonder if these highly directional beams are still dangerous at greater distances than we’re accustomed to. Taking directionality to an extreme, lasers are dangerous, or at least very annoying, from a great distance.
Let’s assume we’re still talking about human eyes.
Peter Shute
Light reduces in intensity in accordance with a formula known as “The inverse square law” the meaning of which is “the intensity of light from a point source falling upon a subject is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source”. Simply put, the light at 2 metres from the point source would be one quarter the intensity of the same beam of light measured at 1 metre. At 4 metres it would be one sixteenth the intensity at 1 metre. Obviously some of these new LED torches are very powerful if they can throw a beam which illuminates a subject at 200 metres. It is unlikely, however, that an animal’s eyes would be damaged by the light from such a torch at that distance, or half that distance. I am sure that many animals would be annoyed by the light beam, though. Of course, aiming the beam from such a torch into one’s own eyes or the eyes of an animal at arm’s distance would be quite foolish and could be classified as deliberate self harm or animal cruelty. The warnings which come with those torches are probably just the manufacturer’s way of covering themselves from liability for the foolish actions of the end user. No one in their right mind would shine a 200 to 1000 lumens beam of light into their eye from a distance of a few centimetres, would they? A 60 watt incandescent light bulb produces about 800 lumens. Imagine looking at one of those from a distance of a few centimetres.
When considering the inverse square law it should be remembered that the effect of the intensity of the light from a constant source such as a torch will be different to that of a momentary source such as a camera flash. I have seen it suggested that birds may not be affected to any great degree by camera flash because the flash duration is so short the bird’s eye is able to absorb the light without any damage being done. Some birds seem to be able to look at the sun for a significant period of time without any adverse effect on the eye or vision.
Bob Inglis Sandstone Point Qld
I’d like to know too. To be fair, I expect anecdotal evidence is all you can hope for as it would be a pretty odd science experiment to test out how to blind birds with light…
As this is a regular thread, I’ll just toss in my usual comment (one that does have some “anecdotal scientific” evidence going for it): it is easier to *spot* animals with a bright light but it is then harder to *observe* them. I’ve tried out torches and low-end night vision gear and the difference is pretty dramatic. With the IR-boosted night vision, mammals just don’t seem worried. With a torch, they turn away and leave a lot quicker. ===============================
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I’m equally interested in the warning that these torches can damage human eyesight. Is it true, and from what distance? Is it any less true of traditional powerful torches?
I imagine the warning might apply to people shining it into their own eyes from close up, but surely the danger diminishes further away.
Peter Shute
There has been a comment made in this current thread on LED torches which insinuates that powerful light sources are a danger to the wellbeing of the vision of birds.
As someone who does a lot of nature photography involving the use of powerful torches and camera flash gear I am always interested in claims of possible, probable and actual damage to the eyes of creatures, especially birds, from such light sources. I regularly hear these claims but so far have never been able to find reliable evidence that powerful torches and/or camera flash units have adverse effects on the eyes and/or vision of birds. There is certainly plenty of scientific evidence that the eyes and eyesight of mammals, reptiles and invertebrates are susceptible to damage from exposure to very bright light from powerful torches and camera flash units but there seems to be only subjective and/or anecdotal evidence that such light sources can possibly adversely affect the eyes and vision of birds. It should be noted that humans and other mammals such as possums have eyes of similar construction so it would be reasonable to expect that, if a very powerful light source is damaging to human eyes, then, the same would apply to the eyes of other mammals. The same applies to the eyes of reptiles as their eyes are of a similar construction to those of mammals. Birds eyes, however are somewhat different in construction to those of mammals and reptiles so it should be unwise to simply assume the effects created by powerful lights would definitely be the same for both classes of eye. The eyes of invertebrates are quite different again and there is strong evidence that the eyes of invertebrates are even more sensitive to strong light than are the eyes of birds, mammals, and reptiles. It should be noted also, that torches and camera flash units are very different sources of light. Torches are used to provide a constant beam of light for a sustained period whereas camera flash units are designed to provide a powerful source of light for a very short period of time.
As I have mentioned in previous postings on this topic, I have never seen any evidence that the vision of birds has been adversely affected by the powerful torches and camera flash units I use in my bird photography. On the contrary, my observations have been that the light from powerful torches has had little or no effect and likewise for the light from my camera flash units when used on birds during day or night photography. It has been my observation on occasion that, on activating the flash unit for the first time, some birds are startled by something they obviously did not expect. Those birds usually take no notice after that first flash and continue to do what they were doing before the flash unit fired. On the other hand, I have certainly noticed that mammals definitely are disturbed by having powerful lights trained on their eyes.
I have asked this question before and I ask it again now. Would someone please point me towards some scientifically proven information which proves that the eyes and vision of birds are as susceptible to damage from exposure to very strong light such as from powerful torches, LED or other, and camera flash equipment. I am not interested in subjective comments even if they are from eminent scientists; I have read a number of those and they actually prove nothing.
I am happy to receive correspondence on this privately if respondents don’t wish to discuss this publically.
Bob Inglis Sandstone Point Qld
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Another LED spotlight brand which is available in Australia is Eagletac. This has brilliant light (maximum output 800 lumens in the M3C4 model) and long lasting rechargeable batteries and also has filters that can be added to protect wildlife eyes (red filter good for mammal spotlighting). For spotlighting at maximum output, high visibility goes out to 200 metres or more. Such a great bit of kit (very light, like a household torch) comes at a price. I use the M3C4 model. It has a variable power output adjustment. Available from the LED Torchshop:
https://www.ledtorchshop.com.au/brand/eagletac
My old 12 volt battery pack, harness and big spotlight now languishes in the workshop, unloved and unused.
Peter Valentine
Associate Professor Peter Valentine School of Earth and Environmental Sciences James Cook University Townsville Queensland, Australia.
landline 61.7.47814441 cell 0427 634 136
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I use a Led Lenser head torch which has beam continuous spread and power control; not as powerful as the P7 which from memory has only a couple of power settings but does have spread control.
The latest model is more powerful and when released I think it came as a package with a penlight torch for about $120.
Aussie Disposals carry them.
Brian Fleming Melbourne
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Agree – I have a P14 which is pretty good – not as good as a “real” spotlight but so much more practical. ANd it runs off AA batteries so easy to change the battey.
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Hi Steve,
My Mother’s Day gift was Led Lenser H7. Fantastic and heaps bright enough for spotlighting and surveying. Cost $79 from our local marine supply shop. The H14 is more powerful, but not sure that it is needed.
I understand there are some dodgy fakes so take care in choosing an internet site if you go down that path.
Regards
Judith
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Hi Steve, I have a LED Lenser P7 and for the cost/size/weight it is wonderful. However i have a couple of friends who have just purchased WOlf-Eyes LED torches (Sea-Lion Hunter model) and they are way brighter! I bought my P7 via catchoftheday.com.au Feel free to email me directly if you want to talk more
Cheers Dave
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Hi Steve,
I have a lLed Lenser H14 and it is a very powerful and robust headlamp. So much so that I don’t bother with heavy backpack batteries and handheld spotlights when undertaking nocturnal surveys anymore.
I bought mine off Ebay from a Victorian vendor. They are easy to locate if you just plug in a search. The price is around $100.00 (give or take depending on the vendor).
Sorry for sending to the complete list if this isn’t your bag, but I’ve found this light to be so good that I thought others might benefit from the tip.
Kind Regards,
Allan Richardson Morisset NSW
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