Shy Albatross x 2 on offer
By Birding-Aus, on January 6th, 2014
Is there anyone wanting Shy Albatross x 2 for skeletons? One found yesterday on Middle Beach, Mimosa Rocks NP (Far South Coast NSW) and dragged up beyond high tide and another on Aragunnu, a tad further north still there from before Christmas. Directions available for anyone interested. Barbara Jones _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
No denying what you are saying Philip about the scientific merit of collecting dead organisms, but from a National Park as was stated…. That’s a whole different kettle of seafood, regardless of permits. My suggestion is to let the rangers or museum know and they can collect the specimens if they desire. Collecting bird bands off dead specimens is much easier. John Harris —– Reply message —– Cc: “‘Birding-Aus'” < Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org> Presumably in most cases “disposed of correctly” is to leave it just to nature, given legalistic concerns about collecting without a permit. But if the specimen is of some value, then I don’t agree. How difficult is it to get a permit? I have had such a permit for nearly 30 years. Whilst John’s advice is technically correct, it would be a rare case of a prosecution from something like collecting a skeleton. Fauna protection enforcement bureaucracies surely have higher priorities than this. I ask has anyone ever heard of such an agency prosecuting someone who legitimately takes an already dead specimen of fauna to donate to a museum or similar (and what was the result). Some specimens found dead provide important material to document vagrant records or simply provide an increase in sample size of data or range of specimens so that museum staff don’t need to go collecting as much. Collecting specimens like this can provide material that is useful to study anatomy, is useful as reference material for artwork (getting proportions right, collecting representative feathers etc) as well as other reasons such as assessing cause of death. Or it can just promote an interest in biology. Philip —–Original Message—– Allan Richardson Sent: Tuesday, 7 January 2014 12:17 PM Cc: Birding-Aus Hi Barbara, John is correct, so be very careful how you proceed with the possession of these birds or taking any birds into your possession in the future. However I think you’ve done the right thing in alerting a forum that has members with the sort of qualifications that John mentions and data from deceased individuals can give valuable information about bird movements in some cases. Shy albatross records and measurements in particular, due to recent taxonomic changes, could be of great interest to the seabird scientific fraternity at the moment. You might contact SOSSA directly perhaps (internet will give contact details) or the Australian Museum to find out how these birds might be documented and disposed of correctly. Kind regards, Allan Richardson Morisset NSW On 06/01/2014, at 3:59 PM, John Harris wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
I was threatened with prosecution for taking dead snakes to my son’s school to teach the kids the difference between venomous and non-venomous species. I told the ranger whom I knew to go ahead. He hesitated saying Parks and Wildlife would “probably end up with egg on our face”. A magistrate later told me she’d have thrown the case out. By the same token there is a law against not clearing Gamba grass from one’s property. Not one person has been prosecuted. Makes one wonder doesn’t it! Denise Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow PO Box 71, Darwin River, NT 0841 043 8650 835 On 7/1/14 12:42 PM, “Tony Russell” < pratincole08@gmail.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Thank you to all who have responded on and off line. I have NOT had the birds in my possession nor would I want to. In trying to follow up after a report from a member I acted as quickly as I could by contacting birding-aus, hoping the message might reach the most appropriate people, possibly a scientist from Canberra holidaying along the coast, who could retrieve them before ‘somebody’ took them as souvenirs, as happens. Yesterday I followed up with emails to some places as suggested in your replies with no response so far. I now wish to remove myself from this controversy! Thank you again Barbara —–Original Message—– Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 12:17 PM Cc: Barbara Jones ; Birding-Aus Hi Barbara, John is correct, so be very careful how you proceed with the possession of these birds or taking any birds into your possession in the future. However I think you’ve done the right thing in alerting a forum that has members with the sort of qualifications that John mentions and data from deceased individuals can give valuable information about bird movements in some cases. Shy albatross records and measurements in particular, due to recent taxonomic changes, could be of great interest to the seabird scientific fraternity at the moment. You might contact SOSSA directly perhaps (internet will give contact details) or the Australian Museum to find out how these birds might be documented and disposed of correctly. Kind regards, Allan Richardson Morisset NSW On 06/01/2014, at 3:59 PM, John Harris wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
I picked up a red tail feather from a RTBC on Kangaroo Island some years ago and was chastised roundly by a ranger. He advised it was a prosecutable offence, but didn’t take the feather or have me charged. Paper tiger maybe ? Tony. —–Original Message—– Philip Veerman Sent: Tuesday, 7 January 2014 1:12 PM Cc: ‘Birding-Aus’ Presumably in most cases “disposed of correctly” is to leave it just to nature, given legalistic concerns about collecting without a permit. But if the specimen is of some value, then I don’t agree. How difficult is it to get a permit? I have had such a permit for nearly 30 years. Whilst John’s advice is technically correct, it would be a rare case of a prosecution from something like collecting a skeleton. Fauna protection enforcement bureaucracies surely have higher priorities than this. I ask has anyone ever heard of such an agency prosecuting someone who legitimately takes an already dead specimen of fauna to donate to a museum or similar (and what was the result). Some specimens found dead provide important material to document vagrant records or simply provide an increase in sample size of data or range of specimens so that museum staff don’t need to go collecting as much. Collecting specimens like this can provide material that is useful to study anatomy, is useful as reference material for artwork (getting proportions right, collecting representative feathers etc) as well as other reasons such as assessing cause of death. Or it can just promote an interest in biology. Philip —–Original Message—– Allan Richardson Sent: Tuesday, 7 January 2014 12:17 PM Cc: Birding-Aus Hi Barbara, John is correct, so be very careful how you proceed with the possession of these birds or taking any birds into your possession in the future. However I think you’ve done the right thing in alerting a forum that has members with the sort of qualifications that John mentions and data from deceased individuals can give valuable information about bird movements in some cases. Shy albatross records and measurements in particular, due to recent taxonomic changes, could be of great interest to the seabird scientific fraternity at the moment. You might contact SOSSA directly perhaps (internet will give contact details) or the Australian Museum to find out how these birds might be documented and disposed of correctly. Kind regards, Allan Richardson Morisset NSW On 06/01/2014, at 3:59 PM, John Harris wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Beach washed albatrosses are always of interest. I would suggest that you send them to the Australian Museum. Museum collection albatrosses are very useful for estimating temporal abundance in coastal waters. Give Walter Boles a ring (Aus Museum switchboard). Cheers Harry Battam Mobile +61 429 887 800 Never learn to do anything: if you don’t learn, you’ll always find someone else to do it for you. Mark Twain ________________________________________ Sent: 07 January 2014 13:41 Cc: ‘Birding-Aus’ Presumably in most cases “disposed of correctly” is to leave it just to nature, given legalistic concerns about collecting without a permit. But if the specimen is of some value, then I don’t agree. How difficult is it to get a permit? I have had such a permit for nearly 30 years. Whilst John’s advice is technically correct, it would be a rare case of a prosecution from something like collecting a skeleton. Fauna protection enforcement bureaucracies surely have higher priorities than this. I ask has anyone ever heard of such an agency prosecuting someone who legitimately takes an already dead specimen of fauna to donate to a museum or similar (and what was the result). Some specimens found dead provide important material to document vagrant records or simply provide an increase in sample size of data or range of specimens so that museum staff don’t need to go collecting as much. Collecting specimens like this can provide material that is useful to study anatomy, is useful as reference material for artwork (getting proportions right, collecting representative feathers etc) as well as other reasons such as assessing cause of death. Or it can just promote an interest in biology. Philip —–Original Message—– Allan Richardson Sent: Tuesday, 7 January 2014 12:17 PM Cc: Birding-Aus Hi Barbara, John is correct, so be very careful how you proceed with the possession of these birds or taking any birds into your possession in the future. However I think you’ve done the right thing in alerting a forum that has members with the sort of qualifications that John mentions and data from deceased individuals can give valuable information about bird movements in some cases. Shy albatross records and measurements in particular, due to recent taxonomic changes, could be of great interest to the seabird scientific fraternity at the moment. You might contact SOSSA directly perhaps (internet will give contact details) or the Australian Museum to find out how these birds might be documented and disposed of correctly. Kind regards, Allan Richardson Morisset NSW On 06/01/2014, at 3:59 PM, John Harris wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Hi Barbara, John is correct, so be very careful how you proceed with the possession of these birds or taking any birds into your possession in the future. However I think you’ve done the right thing in alerting a forum that has members with the sort of qualifications that John mentions and data from deceased individuals can give valuable information about bird movements in some cases. Shy albatross records and measurements in particular, due to recent taxonomic changes, could be of great interest to the seabird scientific fraternity at the moment. You might contact SOSSA directly perhaps (internet will give contact details) or the Australian Museum to find out how these birds might be documented and disposed of correctly. Kind regards, Allan Richardson Morisset NSW On 06/01/2014, at 3:59 PM, John Harris wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
Beware, they are protected and having them in your possession without the appropriate permits to collect and or keep, could lead to fines!! *Yours in all things* “*GREEN”* *John Harris* *Croydon, Vic* * Director – Wildlife Experiences Pty LtdPrincipal Ecologist/Zoologist* *Nature Photographer* *Wildlife Guide* *wildlifeexperiences@gmail.com < wildlifeexperiences@gmail.com>* *0409090955* *President, Field Naturalists Club of Victoria* *(www.fncv.org.au)* On 6 January 2014 15:56, Barbara Jones < jonesbarbara@bigpond.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ Birding-Aus mailing list Birding-Aus@birding-aus.org To change settings or unsubscribe visit: http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org