Hi Chris,
“How long is a piece of string”….
Albatross Taxonomy now there’s an interesting topic!!
I think most agree that it would be Shy, though some would split off “White-capped” T. Steadi – even Pizzey!! But C&B and IOC have them both under Shy.
Cheers mate
I thought there for a moment you got one in Alice!!
Steve Potter
RFI: Shy Albatross taxonomy
from [ http://bioacoustics.cse.unsw.edu.au/archives/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=%2Bfr om%3Acomebirdwatching%40gmail.com&idxname=birding-aus&sort=date%3Alate> Chris Watson]
[Permanent http://bioacoustics.cse.unsw.edu.au/archives/cgi-bin/mesg.cgi?a=birding-aus &i=AANLkTi%3DuUzqZbRRtFAa56vpGLkM4vGaNkZsZwVYSu34a%40mail.gmail.com> Link][Original http://bioacoustics.cse.unsw.edu.au/archives/cgi-bin/extract-mesg.cgi?a=bir ding-aus&m=2011-02&i=AANLkTi%3DuUzqZbRRtFAa56vpGLkM4vGaNkZsZwVYSu34a%40mail. gmail.com> ]
To:
birding-aus@lists.vicnet.net.au
Subject:
RFI: Shy Albatross taxonomy
From:
Chris Watson < comebirdwatching@gmail.com>
Date:
Sun, 13 Feb 2011 19:02:17 +0930
I know taxonomy is in constant flux but does anyone know what I saw when I was on a boat trip off South Bruny Island, Tasmania in January this year? It was what I would call a Shy Albatross (Thalassarche cauta) but several references disagree with me. I’m just having trouble working out which authority to go by.
Can anyone fill me in with the excepted position on the taxonomy of these birds as it stands?
Cheers, Chris Watson Alice Springs
Albatross taxonomy has been the subject of controversial debate for several years. The camps are divided between recognising the 14 traditional species of the old days and 28 or more species of the new regime. The answer depends on your opinion. The birds Chris saw off Tas are White-capped Albatross T. cauta cauta. Whether you treat these as the same species as T (c) steadi, T(c) salvini and/or T.(c) eremitta is unsettled, though steadi is barely differentiated. The broader subject has been discussed on birding-aus many times. I take opportunity to gratuitously copy a great b-a posting from the archives by the redoubtable Glen Ingram in 1998 that garnished some more stern debate:
Betty and Harry Albatross
m(“hyder-con.com.au”,”Glen.Ingram”); Glen.Ingram@hyder-con.com.au
Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:16:34 +1000
Three cheers for David! What an excellent summary of the confusing kaleidoscope of albatross species. However, I do respect Peter Milburn’s arguments.
As for fiddling with nomenclature to enhance conservation, someone is going to eventually mount a legal challenge that will burst asunder any credibility the conservation of species ever had. That will be a sad day. It is fine for the moment as a grant enhancer and work funder within the government and conservation industries (more species more urgent and expensive work needed in an important, popular group).
But the dangers loom. And while money is channelled into this sort of work, habitat is being cleared everywhere. I think there is a good argument for stopping all grants and work on species, closing down the conservation industry and channelling all their moneys into land acquisition.
Even so, the rush for Evolutionary Terminal Taxa, Operational Taxonomic Units, or Cultural Terminal Taxa of ethnosystematics, tends to forget the range of clients for nomenclature. It is useless producing classifications if these cannot be used by most of them. We are getting to the level of Betty and Harry Albatross. This is your future:
Tony Palliser’s Pelagic Report for 12 July, 1999, Sydney Boat Trip.
A great day was had by all even if the numbers of birds were down on last trip. Only 334,000 species were seen but that was because of the calm seas. Please use an unzipping file to access the list.
1. Betty Albatross 2. Harry Albatross 3. Cilia Black Petrel 4. Robin Shearwater 5. Craig Shearwater 6. Betty Shearwater 7. John Shearwater 8. Alan Shearwater 9. Trevor Shearwater 10. Tom Shearwater (shearwater species continued on pages 233-10987). 11. Annie Prion etc
However, it is sad to report we found a dead bird: Barry Albatross has become extinct despite all the conservation efforts of Environment Australia, Birds Australia, Greening Austraila, Wildlife Australia and the sponsorship of Tennis Australia.
This (below) is how the latest OSNZ checklist treats them, except English name for the taxon breeding in Tasmania (T. c. cauta) is Tasmanian Albatross, which removes confusion over the use of “Shy Albatross”.
Ross
Ross Silcock P.O. Box 57 Tabor, IA 51653 New Zealand Land and Pelagic Bird Tours http://www.rosssilcock.com
G’day Glenn,
When I last looked, both the IOC and Clements checklists list only three species for this group. Chatham, Salvins and Shy, with White-capped (Thalassarche cauta steadi) a ssp of Shy.
Cheers Jeff.
Yeah I thought it was confusing too a year or so ago when I got into it Chris, but actually Albatross taxonomy consistent around the world – the Christidis and Boles (and Birds Australia) list is the only one that differs as far as I know. See the birdlife international checklist for all the details (http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/info/taxonomy), but the there are 4 “Shy” Albatrosses. Shy (Thalassarche cauta) – Australian endemic, White-capped (Thalassarche steadi) – NZ endemic, Salvin’s (Thalassarche salvini) and Chatham (Thalassarche eremita) – NZ endemic. There are small morohological and chromatic differences between Shy and White Cap’s but they are very, very similar looking (I sure can’t pick them). Salvin’s and Chatham are easily picked. All the field guides I’ve seen have them all described. Glenn