Myself and Geoff Brown from Lithgow found an unusual Duck in the Lockyer Valley west of Brisbane today. Managed a number of images. We are unsure of the birds identity and any feedback from birders/duck experts appreciated – please click on the link below – then click on the link you will see on the front of my website – a summary and images on the page. Please respond either on the forum or to my email address which is theplainswanderer@me.com
Heres the link
http://web.mac.com/theplainswanderer/
With thanks
David Taylor Brisbane
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Hi Bob
At your urging, and in the spirit of AC Grayling’s axiom, I’ll add the voice of another who has seen many Pintails.
I’m in full agreement with Nikolaas Haass’s recent post: “Confirming others, neither jizz, plumage colour nor bare part colour “make it” a Northern Pintail or any of the other pintails.”
Whereas it’s an interesting academic exercise to see what combination of moult or abberation could make it resemble a Northern Pintail, I see a Grey Teal, clear and simple.
All the best
Bill Jolly
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Hi Jeff,
That is interesting. Actually at one point it was suggested that it was a juvenile. But I thought that the coverts look too abraded and therefore suggested that it was an adult in heavy moult. What do you think? I am happy to be corrected.
Cheers,
Nikolas
I have come late to this, but I notice that nobody has suggested that this bird is juvenile. Note the dull eye colour, small body feathers and most significantly the lack of a full set of flight feathers which have just stated to grow in simultaneously. So juvenile Grey Teal for mine.
Cheers Jeff.
I’m on the side of the Grey Tealists – for me, the head is too square, the beak too short and not quite tapering enough, the neck is not as thin and long in any of the photos as I would expect. As Ed mentioned, the eye is also the wrong colour. A major point for me is that while the tail does look pointed, the pattern of how the feathers are arranged looks wrong – in Northern Pintails, the central tail feather is clearly longer, while this looks quite different. I think it’s just the lack of flight feathers that’s really accentuating the tail. Overall, I’d say Grey Teal. As Nikolas said, hybrids are well-studied in northern ducks, but new and interesting ones are always popping up as ornamental ducks escape and start interbreeding. If I wanted to be facetious, I’d ask if there were any free-roaming Yellow-billed Pintails in the area, as the plumage and tail are a little similar… Cheers,
Tony
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Bob not Bon – my apologies!
Ed Williams
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Cheers Bon for your thorough and well written reply.
Perhaps my monitor is misaligned as the eyes genuinely do look red to me… (I can check on my iPad later to compare colours)
Also, I should have added that I am from the UK so have seen many a pintail in the past and the eyes have always looked brown in the field to me.
Anyway it is a strange bird so David was right to post it – and it is always good for these ID debates.
Wishing everyone a great weekend,
Ed
Ed Williams Kingsville VIC
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Ed, one of the things which caused me to pull back a little from my initial ID of Grey Teal was the iris colour. As I see the irises of the birds in David’s images they don’t look anywhere near the bright red of the Grey Teal irises in my own images. In fact the irises in David’s images look more brown than red to me.
HANZAB describes the colour of the Grey Teal’s iris as varying from vivid crimson-red to dull red in adults of both sexes while it is light brown or hazel in the juvenile. In “Wildfowl” (Madge and Burn) the Grey Teal’s iris is described as red, brightest in adult males.
I have photos showing Grey Teal irises ranging from bright red to dull red which probably covers the range described for adults in HANZAB, however, I would need to study a colour chart to determine if any of ‘my’ Grey Teal have the light brown or hazel irises of juveniles.
HANZAB describes the colour of the Northern Pintail’s iris as being yellow-brown. (I interpret that as being base colour brown with a yellow caste.) In “Wildfowl” (Madge and Burn) the Northern Pintail’s iris is described as being yellowish to brownish-yellow. (I interpret that as being base colour yellow with a brown caste.)
It seems to me that the common perception of Grey Teal is that they do not hold their tails as erect as shown in David’s images, however, I do have images of Grey Teal, taken at the same location as David’s birds, which are almost identical in pose to David’s birds and those birds, albeit much healthier and more robust looking, have their tails as erect. Also, the plumage colours are very similar.
I do lean strongly towards the bird being a Grey Teal but reports of sightings of Northern Pintails occur in Australia now and then so I think it is reasonable to consider that species when assessing the ID of a teal which ‘looks different’. David Taylor is a very experienced bird observer and a keen and competent photographer of birds so I am more than prepared to listen when he says there seemed to be something ‘different’ about this bird. But I won’t be dashing out to the Lockyer Valley to look for this bird anytime soon.
Bob Inglis Sandstone Point Qld
http://www.photos-n-guides.com/
Many thanks again to all that have responded and its always good and imporatant to chew the fat on these things – Ive had some private messages as well as those on this forum with some excellent feedback and I do beleieve we can say that this bird isnt a Pintail and is almost certainly a Grey Teal albiet one with a difference! My hunch was always Grey Teal hybrid but its been good to get others perspective on it. My moment of extreme excitement at the pond is hopefully understandable!
Happy birding all and thanks once again
Thanks also to Geoff Brown from Lithgow who was with me for his feedback, advise and images.
Particular thanks to Bob Inglis for his research and comments.
cheers
David Taylor
David and Marg Taylor Brisbane
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Hi all,
I am also one of these Northern Hemispherians, who have seen tens of thousands of Northern Pintails in Europe, North America, Africa and Asia. Confirming others, neither jizz, plumage colour nor bare part colour “make it” a Northern Pintail or any of the other pintails. The jizz clearly indicates one of the teals – the only ID contenders are Grey Teal, Sunda Teal or Chestnut Teal and – if you want to stretch it – Cape Teal. To me the bird still looks like a Grey Teal. The infamous “H” word is however not so infamous in Anas, Aythya, Anser and Branta. However, most Northern Hemisphere hybrid combinations appear to be well-studied and I cannot find any that looks that similar to Grey Teal as David’s bird. As so often, the Southern Hemisphere is not so well covered in many studies. So, I still can’t rule out a hybrid 100%. But again, I still think it is a Grey Teal.
Cheers,
Nikolas
Hi all,
One thing I would take note of is the eye colour in the photos – red like a Grey Teal rather than dark brown like a female Pintail.
Cheers again,
Ed
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Thanks Robert and Gary on your further discussion on this bird. Just in terms of your comment on the “greyness” of the bird Gary Ive just added a couple of further images of the bird which I think show the birds “browness” in overall plumage ( excuse my laymen like descriptions!). It does appear most feedback has been Grey Teal – I must confess though the upright tail keeps making me curious and wasnt a passing moment – we watched the bird for sometime and this never varied. Wierd Grey Teal? Sounds likely. But as Bob has indicated – perhaps room for thought still? Would be great to hear some further feedback from those with knowledge of northern hemisphere waterfowl.
cheers and thanks again
David Taylor
David and Marg Taylor Brisbane
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I live in western Canada so have a fair bit of experience with Northern Pintail. This bird does not look like a Northern Pintail (NOPI) to me. I don’t think I have ever seen one looking so grey; female pintails are brown. Furthermore, NOPI should not be moulting in April! They are here now and in full breeding plumage. Now, having said all that, could the green slime be affecting colour? And if this bird has been in the ‘wrong’ hemisphere for any length of time, could moult sequences have been disrupted? Things to ponder, I suppose. I will pass on the pictures to a couple of my “non-Birding-Aus” friends and see if any think it could be a NOPI, if so, I’ll let you know. Gary
With reference to David Taylor’s very interesting question about the ‘strange’ duck he saw on the University of Queensland campus out there at Gatton in the Lockyer Valley in SE Queensland (an area which was devastated by, unprecedented in white man’s time, floods last year) I would like to ask a question with the following context in mind.
Although I have been birdwatching for nearly 40 years I have never come to grips with moult. Although I have been photographing birds for most of that time and some of the most expert people in Australia have been very patiently trying to educate me in the understanding of moult I seem to be too dumb (or too old) to take it all in. I’m tempted to give those people names but I really shouldn’t embarrass them so I won’t. But I say to them “Don’t give up.” I love youse all.
Anyhow………. The question is: Why is David Taylor’s ‘strange’ bird not a Northern Pintail female undergoing moult of the primaries and, possibly, the secondaries – as has been suggested? Is it because it is in Queensland? (Oh, that is facetious, Bob and should be struck from the records).
I have not yet seen a pintail of any description so I am clutching at straws here but I have consulted “Wildfowl” by Steve Madge and Hilary Burn as well as HANZAB (we all know what that is, don’t we?). Having done so it seems to me that there is a possibility, small though it might be, that David, et all, has found something very ‘interesting’.
Why isn’t David’s bird a Northern Pintail female undergoing moult of the primaries and, as it has been suggested, the secondaries?
In asking this question, I am hoping that those birders who have had extensive experience with observing Northern Pintails will respond. After all, the majority of Australian birdwatchers with experience of northern hemisphere birds come from……………the northern hemisphere. At least that is my observation. A few Australian boundary-ed birdwatchers probably only see one or two Northern Pintails in their entire life. As I said, I haven’t seen any and I confine my observations to the mainland of Australia.
I realize the shortcomings of digital photography (having been involved with it for 11 years) and therefore I understand why David’s images vary in the colours of the plumage of this bird but, understanding those technicalities, I can see, as David saw, that this bird is ‘different’ to the average Grey Teal. My initial reaction was that it is always wise to not look for a rarity and to simply look for an aberration when observing something which looks ‘different’. My experience at that location is that the common ducks include Grey Teal so that is what I initially advised David . However, further consideration encouraged me to suggest that this bird might, only might, be something else. As I read it, David’s bird might have a rufous wash over the head and the iris might be somewhat different in colour to that of Grey Teal. If so that could indicate Northern Pintail female. Not Northern Pintail juvenile as the plumage is quite different.
In the course of education (of me in particular) I would like those birders who have had experience with Northern Pintail females (from an observer’s point of view) to come forward and voice an opinion. Is that too much to ask?
Please understand that I am not being critical of anyone but simply wanting to ensure that an opportunity is not missed. I don’t mind if I am proven to be way of track here.
A ‘proverb’ from the latest book I am reading “In advising a friend, seek to help, not please”. (The good Book – a secular bible- by AC Grayling)
Bob Inglis Sandstone Point Qld http://www.photos-n-guides.com/ (my new and expanded website – still a work in progress so please forgive the errors and omissions)
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Have to agree, a weird looking duck. I’d like to hear what the outcome is.
Tony
Hi David,
I have never seen a Grey Teal x Northern Pintail hybrid. So I am certainly not an expert. I personally also think that this bird is a Grey Teal. However, the fine streaking down the chest implies that you may be right and something else in mixed in. I don’t think the bird is a juvenile. It rather looks like an adult in heavy moult to me – look at all the worn and abraded coverts. I also cannot find your photos where you compare size and jizz directly to Grey Teal (” n terms of size the bird appeared to be larger and more elongated than a Grey Teal and I think the photos demonstrate this”)
Joern & Christoph, what do you guys think?
Cheers,
Nikolas
Thanks all for the feedback thus far – Ive had a number of responses via the forum and private – the general concensus is that the bird is Grey Teal – either pure or of mixed breeding though a few feel it may be something else akin to a Pintail. It was an interesting sighting – I must admit for a while we were wondering what the heck it was though my leaning was always something with Grey Teal in it – I must confess the erect tail got us going. I favour some hybridisation as Ive never seen a Grey Teal have the look and jizz of this bird though the theory of a juvenile may have some merit – certainly the tail got us wondering as Ive never seen that before so pronounced. The birds solitary nature and more confiding attitude also suggested it may have been something different. In terms of size the bird appeared to be larger and more elongated than a Grey Teal and I think the photos demonstrate this. Anyway no doubt a strange looking specimen that had us wondering. for a w hile.
Any further comment welcome. regards
David Taylor
David and Marg Taylor Brisbane
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Hello David,
Your bird looks like a Grey Teal, either a young one and/or one that’s moulting/growing it’s flight feathers.
Cheers,
D.
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Hi David,
I’d go with it being a really scrawny moulting Grey Teal…
Cheers,
Ed
Ed Williams Kingsville, VIC
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Hi David. I think there are two things making this duck look strange. Firstly, it doesn’t seem to have any flight feathers, which makes it look long, and is probably why it didn’t fly away. Secondly, it has green slime hiding its throat, which maybe covering up the typical white colouration of Grey Teal in this area. I don’t think holding the tail like that rules out Grey Teal. It does look interesting but I wouldn’t rule out GT.
Cheers Steve Murray